http://bangthetable.com/comment/index BangTheTable.com - Providing the community and government with a new way to engage in public policy debate http://bangthetable.com/topic/how-important-is-it-that-we-build-these-three-community-centres-and-the-youth-facilities-as-part-of-the-buildings-for-our-community-program Burdekin said "Parking around Coogee is already at a premium. A new expanded community center, as is being suggested, would only add to the problem. The surf club should be renovated to remove the concrete cancer, and together with the existing East Ward center, they should suffice for most needs in this area, without an expensive new building, which will only add to future maintenance requirements. " 2010-03-18 07:37:51 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-carlingford2 emma1 said "I am concerned that some of the facts stated in the reports from Hornsby council as influencing why they have selected precincts maybe out of date. The traffic report Traffic Modelling was done in Feb 2008. From my own experience on Pennant Hills Rd taffic has increased since that report has been presented. Council has not taken into account that the North West Metro will open up new traffic hubs. This should also have an impact of where to place housing. Council have not taken into account that the Epping to Parramatta railway link has been dumped by the state government. Yes this will make a hugh impact on the Carlingford area if it ever goes ahead.. So why are council not targeting areas along the NWM? Council should not be taking into account what Baulkham Hills and Parrammatta councils are doing in regard to Carlingford. The changes these 2 others councils want to make or are making are outrageous. 16 to 18 story apartments blocks. We are already being built out by these councils why should Hornsby just add to this. Maybe we need to yell a bit louder and they may remember where Carlingford is, yes part of it is in Hornsby Council. Why has Carlingford been targeted with 5 storey apartments which will total 306 or maybe more new dwellings. The infracture already in place doesn't cope, why should we trust the recommendations in the reports will go ahead. One recommendation that will create a "rat run" is the proposal of traffic lights at Dunrossil ave and Pennant Hills Rd. (I presume the people responsible for this suggestion have no idea at all about the area) This is already a rat run for everyone trying to advoid the lights at Carlingford Rd and Pennant Hills Rd. Plus the other rat run of Alamein Ave will just become worst. I have heard council staff "people won't do that",but yes they will and do. Also the increase of traffic feeding onto Carlingford Rd will increase. Try driving to Epping in peak hour. I am not sure what council mean by "walkability" how far is this? 2kms to a community centre or church of your selection. Especially if you are elderly and on a walking frame or have a young child. Public transport- buses are just about non existant here on a weekend. The title of the "Bushland Shire News" will have to be changed, we won't have any trees left in Carlingford or other areas of Council. I though these days we are being encouraged to be "environmentally friendly". Ever tried to have a tree removed, well council will see that alot of the older trees will go with these new develpoments. Yes they will be replaced but how long will it take these new trees to reach a decent height. " 2010-03-17 23:47:04 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Sham planning logic exposed. According to the Report on Submissions from the last round: Form Letters - top six reasons residents objected to the strategy applying to their locality were: 1. Open Space 2. Traffic 3. Character/streetscape 4. Local Services 5. Bushfire 6. Loss of trees/biodiversity Items 1 to 4 also apply to Linda Street precinct, and even more than in the precincts which were complaining. For example, what traffic would 10 apartments generate compared to 100, or 50 compared to 500? Item 5 is invalid as building apartments will reduce bushfire risk since timber houses and established gardens with much undergrowth will be removed. How much longer does it take to evacuate a few hundred people by car? Not very long and therefore all the local authorities need do is be a bit more conservative in the timing and thresholds for their evacuation warnings. Item 6 - loss of trees or biodiversity is also in question as trees can be preserved (or increased if additional plantings are required), and native trees planted to replace existing introduced species. From individual letters: 1. Traffic 2. Character/streetscape 3. open Space 4. Parking 5. Height 6. Property values Items 1 to 4 also apply to Linda Street precinct, and even more than in the precincts complaining. Item 5 is really the same as item 2, except regarding visibility from outside the precinct. 10 or 20 storey towers cannot be hidden by trees and rarely by ridgelines, whilst 3 or 5 can easily. Item 6. Once you have 20 story apartment blocks on both sides of your units, or across the road, or outside your window if you live in a 10 storey block, do you think your property value will increase or decrease? The largest petition stated: "totally out of character with the ambience" "would replace many character homes carefully maintained and improved by long term residents" "place unmanageable loads on currently inadequate or under supplied school places and transport" "intolerable loads on local traffic" "endanger our school children" All of the above also apply to Linda Street precinct, with the item about school places even more of a problem in Hornsby, as there are none except one selective girls high school, whilst Berowra and Normanhurst both have schools (Normanhurst has a few, and no doubt a fair few of the new residents in Hornsby precinct would be sending their kids to those schools as the state government would need to adjust the catchment areas). Both those precincts would also get additional classrooms and teachers in their EXISTING schools if the pupil numbers increased, so the claim is invalid. And they had the gall to suggest moving the development to other locations knowing full well the same (or worse) would apply there! All the items in the Berowra emails/letters apply to Hornsby, even more so (except bushfires which are largely not of concern as mentioned above). Items like overcrowded trains are also a non-issue as Berowra is the first station for urban trains - the people in Hornsby will be suffering from the extra crowding if the new residents get on at Berowra or Hornsby, but Berowra residents will always be able to get a seat. The Berowra complainants have the gall to suggest they will suffer from overcrowding and suggest Hornsby should be developed! (And Beecroft, as if the only reason they chose the alternative location was that it had not been selected (as I understand it there were valid reasons why it was not chosen last time around)). Waitara letters raised similar issues and if anything are more like the proposed Linda Street precinct than any other, so the issues that Normanhurst et al raised are more valid in Waitara than in Normanhurst et al. They also requested other areas be developed, but as they are already at the limit, who can blame them? Normanhurst and Berowra form letters are the worst - targetting particular locations which are anywhere but near their place, when they themselves have very little medium density at present. I don't think therefore that their suggestions should hold any weight, after all if one part of the Shire has to suffer, why shouldn't we all? It is the only fair way. Comments from other councils? From Parramatta: "the bulk and scale of five storey residential flat buildings may be out of context with the surrounding area." Does that not apply times 4 for 20 stories? "The report also notes the proposal by Hills Shire Council in the Carlingford area for up to 18 storeys and questions whether the cumulative impacts on traffic flow along Pennant Hills Road have been considered." This show what a disaster ultra-high density is. From Hills Shire: "consideration should be given to any smaller neighbourhood centres that may be suitable for medium density development" Nothing to do with Hornsby. "higher densities (8-10 storeys) should be permitted where suitable transport infrastructure and servicing are available" no mention of 20 stories, nor squashing 8-10 stories together Summing up I can easily infer from the Report on Submission that the only reason the planners have shifted to Hornsby (and partially in the case of Beecroft) is because someone thought up a form letter which tried to shift the focus elsewhere, as the other submitted reasons hold no weight. We all know its easy enough to sign something like that shoved in your face, so why give it any weight? I would suggest that the Executive Committee at Council need to review the integrity and/or abilities of the planning team. " 2010-03-17 22:20:57 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-carlingford2 Kevin07 said "I have to agree with you emma1 - I used to live in Carlingford and you knew that if you missed a particular train in the morning you were most certainly going to be an hour late for work. " 2010-03-17 21:55:26 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts res12 said "Really?! Did a councillor tell you that? If they did any consultation no one in my building was aksed. I don't think anyone would agree to have 20 storeys built next to them! I think they need to come up with a better reason than that ..." 2010-03-17 19:46:46 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Ha ha! Thanks! Still got to get the brochures printed and will probably do it on Monday. So your neighbours should get one soon - even if they can't get on this site! I registered for this site today and it worked fine. Got an email straight away and was logged in. That's really poor form that you haven't received a letter from the council yet. I got mine on Monday. I wonder how many other people in the precinct haven't ..." 2010-03-17 19:42:07 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Lucky you got a letter, I'm in the precinct and haven't received one yet. In addition two of my neighbours registered for Bangthetable two days ago - one never received the confirmation email, the other received one but the link did not work. Were you registered form last time (like me) or were you able to register since Sunday? Proud of you doing a letterbox drop!" 2010-03-17 19:30:24 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Bellinid, you have just shown that you do not read others' comments carefully before chipping in, as I stated : "Those who have commented previously are simply trying to tip the balance the other way and (because their areas were slated for corruption first) cast the first stone. Who can blame them? Not me, I am doing the same. " " 2010-03-17 19:25:05 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-mt-colah2 Kevin07 said "I've just built a house and settled my young family in Mount Colah. I had to satisfy many DA requirements to build and now they propose to re-zone over the top of me to satisfy a gov't directive. This is classic "how to kill a suburb lesson 101" Unfortunatley, the slope can be used as an advantage when building. It makes it very easy to fool the eye and make the building look shorter than it actually is if you look at it from a particular angle :ie the highway. The slope also makes it easier to build underground carparking with access from the lower side which is the side no-one sees from said highway unless you are one of the unfortunate residents that lives below it in the street. The view from below will be like looking up at 8-10 storeys depending on your vantage point. No amount of screening will be able to acheive any sort of privacy for residents on the lower side of the lego box. Mount Colah Train station is not elderly, disabled, or pram friendly. Royston pde and K Chase Rd intersection will cop a hammering from extra traffic Development will occur regardless of how many people object however, the "Rack Stack and Pack" method is not a viable long term solution to the forcasted population growth for the entire shire. Part of the solution is the State Gov't needs to stop re-anouncing north west and south west rail links and actually build them in-pace with the release of land in those areas. Bus T-ways are not the answer either. Sure they are quicker to build and get up and running but another short term answer to an issue that has long term social consequences. I'm not keen on leaving but gee I really wish I had never built in this shire that's for sure. " 2010-03-17 16:30:45 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts xfactor said "I was told by the Council that it was the wishes of the community to build gigantic 20 storey towers (you mean developers pretending to be local resident). They must be dreaming let's vote them out ASAP." 2010-03-17 16:03:59 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-mt-colah2 Colahrite said "Definitely a big NO to development at Mt Colah. This will mean DEATH to many species of wildlife that live in Judith Ave alone. Do you realise wallabys come out to feed in the evening. That we have possums that live and sleep on our front veranda. I would assume that Hornsby Councillors just sit in their cushey offices and really dont know what Mt Colah stands for. Why havent they savaged Cheltenham, it has less bush that Mt Colah and it is relatively flat land. " 2010-03-17 15:30:20 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-pennant-hills DNH said "The current congestion on Pennant Hills Road and Trebor Road during peaks is without doubt at breaking point. The introduction of an additional 43 dwellings within this precinct will further congest the area. There is no way that access / egress at the Trebor Road frontage can be considered. This congestion is further compounded by the 3 primary schools within the immediate locality, and hence raises further concerns for child safety. As part of a commute from Pennant Hills to the city via the M2 at Cheltenham (+ LCT), it takes a total of about 35-40 minutes, of which over half of this time is spent getting out of Pennant Hills and through Beecroft. There is no apparent solution for traffic management within the designated area due to current road contraints. " 2010-03-17 14:41:42 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-pennant-hills DNH said "The current congestion on Pennant Hills Road and Trebor Road during peaks is without doubt at breaking point. The introduction of an additional 43 dwellings within this precinct will further congest the area. There is no way that access / egress at the Trebor Road frontage can be considered. This congestion is further compounded by the 3 primary schools within the immediate locality, and hence raises further concerns for child safety. As part of a commute from Pennant Hills to the city via the M2 at Cheltenham (+ LCT), it takes a total of about 35-40 minutes, of which over half of this time is spent getting out of Pennant Hills and through Beecroft. There is no apparent solution for traffic management within the designated area due to current road contraints. " 2010-03-17 13:47:24 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-beecroft peterjh said "There is just sufficient car parking available (approx 210 spaces) within Beecroft Village to justify people driving to the village instead of going elsewhere. If any of the existing large car park spaces, especially that over and around the module (97 spaces, nearly half of the total) is removed during development, the village as a shopping and community centre would be unviable unless or until alternative parking is provided. Once people get out of the habit of coming to the village, the village will die. A viable parking plan is needed to show how development will be managed during any approved redevelopment." 2010-03-17 13:17:15 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts res12 said "Exactly ... isn't the point of an oval to encourage people to get out into the sunshine, enjoy the leafy view, exercise, etc? I don't think the point is to have an enclosed, darkened cauldron that no-one wants to use." 2010-03-17 12:52:29 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Absolutely - it should be a mix of low- mid- and a very small amount of high-rise developments (like College Cr and George St in Hornsby - along main roads/train lines so they're not destroying the town centre). If you read the report on submissions for the last round, ALL (I repeat ALL) the form letters submitted by Berowra residents nominate that ALL the multi-unit housing be provided within Hornsby. Instead of the council using collective common sense and realising that that is ridiculous, it appears they've bowed to that pressure. So much for representing the interests of the whole SHIRE." 2010-03-17 12:45:06 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 nexus said "Waitara faces similar issues as Normanhurst and Berowra (such as traffic, open space etc), yet the original proposal for an additional 400 odd dwellings remains intact. I agree that other suburbs should share the load. I thought that part of the strategy was to provide different housing types in suburbs. I can't see how this is being acheived by loading up Hornsby and Waitara." 2010-03-17 12:19:24 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "I understand what you're saying - as a Hornsby resident I am certainly against the proposed strategy as it stands. Because it seems like the strategy is forcing this into just a few people's backyards. I'd be happy if they spread this around the WHOLE shire - not just unfairly target a few areas where the council thinks there'll be least resistance to the plan. Like increasing townhouse or unit block heights across the WHOLE shire, not simply look for a quick fix and dump a bunch of 20 storey high rises in Hornsby, Waitara, Carlingford." 2010-03-17 12:18:12 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Fantastic idea! I was going to write to the local paper too and get them to do something on it. But if even a few of us from this Forum organised something I know we'd get a lot of support from residents. I just think a lot of people aren't aware of this. " 2010-03-17 12:14:22 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "Totally agree... bring back the original Housing Strategy and spread the load for the good of the Shire. Inevitably, State Government will force Normanhurst and Berowra to share the load one day. Maybe 3 storeys for Normanhurst and Berowra instead of 5 storeys. " 2010-03-17 12:13:37 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts res12 said "That's why we need to be emailing our councillors and making submissions so they hear us. That's what made the difference for suburbs like Berowra and Normanhurst in the last feedback round. They were vocal in protecting their suburb. The more our councillors get bombarded with emails about this (even one-liners), the more they will HAVE to take notice. " 2010-03-17 12:11:34 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts res12 said "And the council's own documents state that these 20 storey high rises will only see about 3 hours of sunlight a day - and not even all the units will see that. I can't imagine the complete darkness that surrounding low-rise units will be subjected to." 2010-03-17 12:08:14 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "Great idea... we should have peaceful protest marches to Hornsby Council as well and petitions to be handed out and sign around Westfield." 2010-03-17 12:06:16 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Completely agree re: council just wanting to hide this and pass it through quickly. I wouldn't have known except I got a letter because I live in the Linda St precinct. They probably think we're all renters and won't care/bother with a submission. That's why I'm doing a letter box drop outside of the affected precincts around Hornsby so more residents are aware of what the council wants to do. I think this forum is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the outrage that residents in Hornsby feel about this 'strategy'." 2010-03-17 12:01:32 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Totally agree - plus the letter the council sent out to residents in the affected precincts stated that rates are going to rise (not maybe, will) due to land re-evaluations. This, plus higher rents and higher unit prices if this goes ahead means a lot of people will inevitably be forced out of Hornsby. " 2010-03-17 11:56:34 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "I agree that this is going to be one of the biggest problems. I live near the Westfield and the parking is already overloaded in our street every day. Can you imagine what 60,000 sqm of 20 storey high rises and all the residents with their cars will do to our streets and even larger roads. It's a recipe for traffic chaos." 2010-03-17 11:54:02 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Well said - sharing it equally is what's going to need to happen in the long term anyway as the population keeps growing. Destroying one suburb like Hornsby with 20 storey concrete jungles (although they're doing their best in Waitara too) is a short-term fix to meet their dwelling targets. Spread out the development and keep it low-rise - 5 storeys, maybe 8-10 at most. NOT 20! " 2010-03-17 11:51:43 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "Totally agree - our councillors, particularly, are there to represent the interests of the WHOLE Shire, not just a few pockets with the loudest voices. I have no idea how they thought it was appropriate to let just a few areas shoulder basically all the load for new housing stock. Get your submissions in! We have until the 23 April!" 2010-03-17 11:48:59 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 res12 said "I am totally outraged that 'our' council is unfairly targeting Hornsby for more high density housing (we already have it along George St and College Crescent). No other suburb is earmarked for 20 storeys - 10 storeys at most. As has been mentioned on here, the areas that gave the strongest feedback in the last round (i.e. Berowra, Normanhurst) have had nearly all their precincts removed from the current plan. I've emailed all councillors about my disgust at this 'strategy' and am doing up a pamphlet to letter box drop to as many residents in this suburb as possible to encourage them to put forward a submission through the formal channels. Otherwise our outrage means nothing if it doesn't get heard loud and clear. If the council's going to pander to the loudest voices rather than demonstrate good planning principles, then as Hornsby residents we need to get loud. Does anyone know how to go about distributing form letters/petitions (i.e. standard letters people can sign and post to increase Hornsby's submissions rate)? These were used a lot in the last feedback round from other suburbs. Are there local associations we can work through?" 2010-03-17 11:45:57 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "Hornsby Town Centre just can't cope with any more high-rises and more than double the current height allows. Just look at businesses around the area...Council can't even approve lunch trading for a restaurant at Burdett St Meriton Apartment due to lack of parking and traffic. Guess what the restaurant closed just after 6 months. This is extremely bad for local businesses and residents." 2010-03-17 10:12:06 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts xfactor said "Way too high and way too much and way too close together for Hornsby Shire... Standard of living will drop...nobody will live in peace, it will be like the Sydney CBD with huge overshadowing and no natural sunlight street after street. The streets will look dull and boring. This is environmentally unfriendly with residents having to folk out more on electricity because they will be living in darkness along with drying the washing, aircon, massive underground carparks, lobbys, common area corridors etc... " 2010-03-17 09:56:35 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/my-ideas-for-creating-a-vibrant-future-for-broken-hill-are dickwho said "Mining will eventually finish, the estimates are in approximately ten years, or so the so called experts say. It appears that the current council has now shifted it's focus away from mining towards tourism, I wonder why? However, due to climatic conditions, tourism in the summer months is not great, the heat keeps travellers away. In order to attract tourists year round, the city must embark upon a program of beautifying the place. This can be achieved by cleaning the streets of rubbish and crap, enforcing the provisions of the Local Government Act, and compell residents to tidy up their yards/properties. Forget about votes and mates. Introduce some local initiative that is worthwhile, so as to encourage people to improve the appearance of their homes, other than paint, and get the city's residents to take pride in it's appearance. Mildura has done this, and so have a lot of other regional cities that compare in size to Broken Hill. If they can do it so can Broken Hill. Forget Chinese/Japenese or any 'ese', sister city nonsense, that will no doubt be wasted on these 'private agendas'. When was the last time we saw a Chinese trade delegation in Argent Street? Ppend the money on some other worthwhile local project. What the future holds for the City of Broken Hill, will only be ensured if additional residents are encouraged to relocate here, thereby increasing the population. Of course there must be work in order to do this, however, 'pie in the sky' schemes must be discarded now, and a realistic approach be made to appreciating what is available. Tourism and conferences bring some capital into the city, but these two items need to be taken into account with a plethora of other more pressing issues. One additional problem I foresee in the future, will be the migration of young people away to other places of employment. This can only be done by employers being encouraged to provide fulfilling and worthwhile employment to the generation now in its infancy. Broken Hill City Council is in a position to influence governments to provide support in this area, so let's do it!" 2010-03-17 09:55:38 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-mt-colah2 jeniken said "NO NO NO> It's hard enough to get into a doctor in the Hornsby area now. What happens when they bring in thousands of more people to the area. I'll tell you what they'll do. They'll go to the emergency room at Hornsby Hospital. This will clog up an already failing hospital. Who is the mental giant that comes up with these stupid ideas. This is the Bushland shire. All of this new development will destroy that. " 2010-03-17 09:33:48 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Cat said "To enclose Waitara Oval with units would send shock waves across Sydney. There isn't a park in Sydney I know of which is enclosed/surrounded by unit blocks. Just take a minute to visualize this... " 2010-03-17 09:23:52 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/building-a-strong-economy Tone said "Mining is still going to be a strong contributor to the community. BHCC need to get behind new mining developments and support existing mines. The next twenty years will see a shift from residentially based mines like perilya and CBH to more drive in drive out mines like bemax honeymoon and white dam. Broken Hill can become a hub for commuter mines like these. With the number of broken hill people who commute to roxby downs to work at olympic dam BHCC should also try to foster the development of a direct air link to roxby." 2010-03-17 09:11:25 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 bellinid said "Perhaps you too are suffering from "not in my backyard" syndrome?" 2010-03-17 08:49:38 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-carlingford2 Radas said "Emma, it would be nice wouldn't it if Council showed all the reasoning behind targetting a particular location. That would of course need to include any approaches made to council by developers so we could see what is really driving things. Unfortunately some of those approaches are going to be unofficial and not even council will know about them, only particular staff members. The planning process seems akin to the Environmental Impact Statement process, were "independent consultants" are hired to fulfil the minimum requirements for an EIS, and only report small negative impacts, or positive ones, leaving it to the local residentsor landholders to find out themselves the ones they neglected to mention (knowing full well they almost certainly won't) - I know because I left my job as one of those consultants when I became disillusioned with just how unfair it was. In this case Council fills in a couple of template tables in a report presented to the public which tell you almost nothing of their reasoning, and that is there intention or they would put the rest of the documentation up for comment. I suggest you write asking for more information http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/yourcouncil/index.cfm?NavigationID=1241 and if necessary invoke the freedom of information laws, though Council would probably drag their feet on such a request to ensure you didn't see documents within the comment period. In addition to that request you should ask the documents be posted to the internet. We would also be very interested to hear what you achieve!" 2010-03-16 21:17:35 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Let me see, if I had a requirement to build 20 storey apartments (which I remind you this council does not), and I had a few green paddocks to put them in, how closely would I space them? 45 m apart? I think I would choose more like 500m, with nice gardens/parks in between, wide promenades, etc. Instead Council wants to cram them together and replicate Waitara but twice as high. Does anyone actually think Waitara is well designed, e.g. would they have bought an apartment there if another one was available which wasn't stuck right next to the others, or had an open view across Waitara Oval? I very much doubt it. And that open view across Waitara Oval, which those guys paid a bit more for - it's now in doubt as there may well be more blocks on the other side of Waitara Oval soon. Bet those guys are thinking about the negative impact on their pocket, while the Councillors/Planners are not, have thought about it but don't give a stuff, or have promised someone (who stands to benefit more than HSC ratepayers) that they will get what they want, a nice area to develop." 2010-03-16 21:04:22 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements Radas said "I would suggest that the people in Epping living in houses or units would also not want 15 stories or higher near their place. But you are probably talking about the shops on the west side which definitely need redevelopment, and apartments could be built on top of those with little impact to others. Then again I think you'll find they are not in Hornsby Shire and so we wouldn't get any benefit (another one of the problems, state government thinks primarily in terms of council areas and doles out the required numbers accordingly, rather than solely looking at other factors such as transport corridors and employment centres)." 2010-03-16 20:50:00 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "They no doubt should, but as none of the councillors or planners will be living in or near any of the zones, do you think they care? This is part of the problem, they should in fact rezone either at their place or across the road on their street so they can see what they are doing to others." 2010-03-16 20:43:26 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "And yet again, why would people vote against keeping apartments below the ridgelines, without comment (and for the next few topics below this one)?" 2010-03-16 19:56:06 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Why did someone vote against lowering the limit to 5 stories?" 2010-03-16 19:55:23 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Hmm, I wonder why anyone would vote against this one, and yet remain anonymous by not adding a comment?" 2010-03-16 19:54:44 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "I would suggest people with a view are more affected than those who only essentially look across the road, and those in houses are on average less affected because they are more likely to be able to see out other sides of the house (whereas units typically look only in one direction). I sit looking out across Hunter Street to the Meriton apartment block and, while it takes us a portion of my view, it is set well back. It was quite well placed. It won't be the under the proposal, they instead want Hornsby to look like Hong Kong or Singapore, where you peer between blocks and may catch a glimpse of the outside world." 2010-03-16 19:53:22 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "I think Council is going to send out letters to all those in or near proposed affected areas, but you might wonder why they can't synchronize the mail out with the release of the documents - it means that effectively the display period is shortened." 2010-03-16 19:46:28 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 locale said "Agreed that the parking and traffic situation in Hornsby Centre is a mess, in particular the bottleneck coming out of Westfield's carpark (Albert St), which is a joke. Sadly, some of the other areas on this revised plan are headed for the same type of mess. Consider Waitara. Anyone who knows the dog leg intersection from Myra to the corner of Palmerston and Edgeworth David will tell you that it cannot handle the current level of traffic from the small shops and school there. Now that corner is to be zoned for 5 storey apartments? Alexandria parade near Waitara station has similar problems. The recent addition of a green arrow to the traffic lights at Myra has certainly ameliorated them to an extent, but ten storey dwellings along that stretch are going to bring so much more traffic. I am not anti-development by any means, but I believe the planners need to address community concerns about parking and traffic before they authorize such development." 2010-03-16 17:36:31 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-pennant-hills winder said ""There are limited traffic management improvements possible due to road network". You don't say! Do Council's 'experts' live in this area, or even in this world? Pennant Hills Road is a parking area for large parts of every day and yet you want to add MORE traffic. Get real! If, one day in the unforseeable future, something is done to fix the North-South traffic problem (don't hold your breath) THEN, MAYBE, this proposal could be considered. " 2010-03-16 15:25:32 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-west-pennant-hills2 winder said "Clearly, something needs to be done about the WPH shopping centre, but I cannot believe the proposal under scrutiny can do the job. There cannot possibly be sufficient on-site parking for both shops and residents (let alone school Mums) and there is nowhere else for shoppers to park. Although they are not currently in good condition, these shops are vital for many local residents, especially the elderly. Traffic problems are already severe, this plan would create a nightmare!" 2010-03-16 15:15:24 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements bellinid said "Epping is apparently the focus of a separate strategy. There will however be increased higher density housing there too." 2010-03-16 14:50:06 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts xfactor said "nexus at least you still have land with big sunny backyard which will appreciate in value as with all land due to housing shortage so leafy suburbs don't have to be compensated. Leafy suburbs love their massive 2 storey McMansions but no to extra level or two." 2010-03-16 13:43:30 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts nexus said "Likewise, is council going to compensate residents in other precincts who purchased houses in quiet, leafy streets who will now be faced with 5 storey unit blocks across the street? " 2010-03-16 13:25:31 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "If 3 to 5 storeys can't replace/built next to 1 or 2 story houses in Normanhurst and Berowra how can it be fair for Hornsby building 20 storey towers to replace/built next to 3 storey blocks? As Council said in their Strategy the town centre will not cope with existing drainage and sewerage and they don't even have money to replace it. The money from their proposed Infrastructure Levy won't cover it either. " 2010-03-16 13:24:49 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-carlingford2 Edmund said "In addition to what emma1 has mentioned, I think the intersection of Rembrandt St and Carlingford Rd already has a lot of congestion due to traffic around Carlingford Court. The majority of the car park entrances are on Rembrandt St. The proposed road widening for a right hand turn lane from Rembrandt St to Carlingford Road would not fix the extra residential traffic going into Rembrandt St from cars travelling west along Carlingford Road. That intersection is the only right hand turn allowed on Carlingford Road for about 2 km. Also the other end of Rembrandt St nearer to Dunrossil Ave is quite narrow and wouldn't be sufficient to support the extra residential traffic from higher density housing. The other issue I have is with the Keeler St proposal. On-street Keeler parking is already used quite a bit due to Carlingford Village and businesses on Pennant Hills Rd. There's nothing in the proposal offering more parking for the businesses and offices that this rezoning would create. " 2010-03-16 12:01:13 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "Stand up and show your anger towards Hornsby Shire Council and NSW State Government here and by writing and emailing to them ASAP." 2010-03-16 11:54:46 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "This is clearly over-development not sensible development to Hornsby Town Centre. It seems Council just dream this on the run, completely different to the original Housing Strategy from last year with no consultation with affected residents in advance before the amendment was released. And still not many residents know of this development after release. Council just wants to hide this and hope to pass it quietly. If Council is serious about renewal, it should be shared across the Shire. Hornsby Shire have lots more land than any area of Sydney. Sensible development should be more sustainable environmentally friendlier 3 to 7 storeys like Meadowbank, Rhodes, Homebush Bay." 2010-03-16 11:46:29 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements xfactor said "Why is Epping not mentioned in this housing strategy? Why can't we rezone Epping Town Centre for 15 stories or even higher? Epping is more appropriate than Hornsby due to its close proximity to the city, Macquarie Uni, Macquarie Park and Chatswood where employment centres are plus new Chatswood to Epping Rail Line. Also, Cityrail are preparing to build North West Rail Link to Epping." 2010-03-16 10:47:33 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-west-pennant-hills2 emma1 said "not enough parking, what about tranport? what public transport. Trnasport hub I don't think so" 2010-03-16 10:44:27 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements xfactor said "Areas recommend for new housing: 1. Epping 2. Pacific Highway (Wahroonga, Waitara, Hornsby Westside, Berowra). 3. Pennant Hills Road (Normanhurst, Thornleigh, Pennant Hills) 4. Beecroft Road " 2010-03-16 10:40:03 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 emma1 said "at least you have a train line at hornsby, try carlingford line or where is west pennant hills train line" 2010-03-16 10:39:43 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 emma1 said "not in my back yard isn't good enough or maybe not at all in Hornsby council share it equally between all precincts in the council if it must happen." 2010-03-16 10:37:10 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements xfactor said "Residents and Council should have this discussion on housing but Council should take more time to do research and more feedback directly by door-knocking residents affected by your strategy. Council should not finalise any strategy until well after next year state election when we all have a clearer idea on who governs and their policies on planning. Also, wait until we know the outcome from State Government about South Dural, if approved there could be 3000+ new dwellings and therefore no need for this housing strategy. New housing can also be created along the North West Rail Link corridor. " 2010-03-16 10:30:36 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/why-does-council-wish-to-pursue-a-rate-variation emma1 said "fixing of potholes and park maintenance seems to be greatly lacking, how do we know a rate increase is actually going to achieve what you say. Is the money going to be spent to cover other problems that are under lying?" 2010-03-16 10:26:21 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/if-the-infrastructure-levy-is-not-approved-where-do-you-think-we-could-reduce-current-services emma1 said "Try living in carlingford, where are Hornsby council spending rate money down here. It would help if pot holes in roads are fixed, footpaths in place on both sides of Pennant Hills Rd. What infrasture? try catching a bus or getting to a railway station. How about parking near libraries? Council should realise maintanence is required on infrasture, why has money not been put away in the past to cover these cost. Maybe council should take some lessons from private schools on how to make ther mnoey work for them. " 2010-03-16 10:22:34 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts xfactor said "Is Council going to compensate residents living in the Meriton Apartments for lost in value to their units given only 2 years ago when potential residents bought their units they studied the local planning laws and did not expect Berlin Walls (10 stories higher than Meriton) directly outside their windows with no privacy and no direct sunlight. Why is this area in Hornsby always a target with each housing strategy we all suffered enough from one or two voices from residents of Normanhurst and Berowra their voices weigh a lot more than residents who can't afford to live in quiet leafy suburbs. " 2010-03-16 10:15:57 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-do-you-think-is-the-best-way-forward-for-the-buildings-for-our-community-program-and-how-should-it-be-funded TMcK said "This is a money grab by Council. With this new special levy for community facilities, Council is proposing to charge 2.71% each year for the next 3 years then “the accumulated increase remains in your rates thereafter. It will continue to fund the agreed building program until it is completed.” The accumulated increase is 8.13% (3 x 2.71%) READ THE COUNCIL PAMPHLET VERY CAREFULLY. It is deceptive and misleading. It is not just 2.71% and it is not just for three years. This will be the third levy (tax or charge) that Council has imposed on its ratepayers in addition to its residential rate. Council has renewed its 6% environmental levy on rates for a further 5 years from 2009. Council has also imposed a stormwater management charge of $25.00 on rates for an indefinite period. As land values increase, Council’s rate returns increase. Council’s income is increasing all the time. Council has received development levies for many, many years. From July 2007 under its Sec 94A Development Contributions Plan, Council now receives 1% of the proposed cost of carrying out a building development (excluding single dwellings). Development costs are increasing so funds from the 1% levy are also increasing. The number of developments is also increasing and that includes dual occupancies. This development contribution is to be applied to the cost of public facilities. Purchasers of any new building structure in the City are therefore already paying a community facility levy inbuilt into their purchase price. Council should amend its Sec 94A Development Contributions Plan to include the additional community projects so it does not hit ratepayers with a third levy (and new building owners a fourth levy). Council should make all its community facilities multi-purpose, multi-functional shared facilities and not exclusive for certain community groups or sports. Most community buildings are not used 7 days a week and could easily be shared facilities. Surplus buildings could then be sold off to fund the upgrades and refurbishments. Surf club buildings could contain commercial restaurants and gymnasiums to fund renovations and repairs, as is the case on the Gold Coast. However, if introducing commercial operations at surf clubs is not viable then it might be time to introduce parking meters at the beaches to fund its maintenance program. Residents would be issued with free parking stickers as would lifesavers. These parking meters bring in considerable income for Waverley and Manly Councils. I agree with Matta SFR. Council has neglected its community facilities for many, many years. It seems to be gross mismanagement and hitting the ratepayers with a special levy is an easy option. This extra levy will come on top of big increases in power, gas and water charges then there is the proposed carbon tax. " 2010-03-16 01:49:21 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/climate-preparedness Sascha said "This is a good step in the right direction. It is better to plan ahead than simply react. Integrating climate predictions into our current planning processes will help Austin be better prepared for the future." 2010-03-16 00:40:36 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-carlingford2 emma1 said "Carlingford is under serviced by a lack of public transport. You can't call Carlingford railway station a transport hub. The peak hour trains have been cut and only 3 carriages in peak hr. Buses rarely turn up on time if at all. Try geeting a bus outside of peak hr. Trying to get to Epping station is a nightmare. The reports mention rd improvements will be made. Why not do it now to prove transport can cater for the current population. In the reports no numbers are ever mentioned for Carlingford. I presume no research has been completed in this end of the council. Is this a lack of respect for us who live in Carlingford? It is very unfair the amount of housing that has been allocated at the back of Carlingford Court. No other precincts have been allocated these numbers. The area cannot cope with the numbers of dwellings council intend to put in. Carlingford cannot cope with the runoff that would be created with more cement and bricks, this was proved in the rain a couple of weeks ago with Dunrossil Park retention basin not coping with the amount of water and local streets flooding. We have a shortage of green space around the carlingford Court area, council in the past has said they don't have the money to replace playground equipment etc, as there is not enough development in the area to cover the cost of new equipment. Does this now mean new parks and playing areas will also be created. Or will council be creating a getto environment, all high rise. I DO NOT AGREE with the Carlingford court precinct development that Hornsby Council are proposing." 2010-03-16 00:14:30 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "The people in the Meriton apartments on George Street will be badly impacted as well. As they are potentially more wealthy (well they must be to afford the strata fees) they presumably will have studied the local planning before purchase and not seen any indication that such development will occur, then selected apartments on the eastern side for a view and a lack of train noise. The plan is to have 20 storey blocks set back two metres from Hunter Lane, i.e. in their face, which look almost 10 stories higher than their block. The proposal gives them the same meaningless planner-speak about breaking up the profile of buildings to make them look better, and having corridors between buildings to allow a view. I can imagine the owners and tenants in those Meriton buildings feel good when they know their property values are going to drop as a result of haing cliff faces outside their windows, and 50% or the view they previously had, and the buildings' design for privacy between apartments being negated by having neighbours in their face below, level and above them. What goes for them goes doubly for our older 3-level apartments which are the main target. " 2010-03-15 19:20:27 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Mandate for 20 storeys? Did Councillors mention in the recent election that they were considering adding 20 storey apartments to the housing mix? Most certainly not. Why then do they believe they should introduce buildings which are taller than those in Rhodes or Strathfield, and taller even than all but a couple of blocks in Chatswood and St Leonards? Are they trying to lead a charge for the state government?" 2010-03-15 19:11:12 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "I would reply by saying I didn't see any comments by Council saying the authors of the last report had been found to be lacking, or their analysis had. Why do you consider the new strategy has made better choices? I consider it a backflip to completely remove some precincts (the ones with most comments last time around) and replace them with different ones, don't you? One problem is that the people least able to comment (poor, lees educated or elderly) don't have as strong a voice. As for insulting people, I don't believe a single one should feel insulted. After all this is just a big game like Russian Roulette, someone has to lose and lose badly, with uncaring bureaucrats making decisions which may cost someone who has trouble coping with life on the pension or who had little superannuation and is nearing retirement, their hope at a dignified old age. Or a young working class couple who has saved hard for a cheap apartment, or is sharing because that is all they can afford, being forced to moved elsewhere, and probably lose a large portion of their life savings by making a move and paying for whatever higher costs apply in the new place. If they plead to Council that this will happen to them, do you think Council will care? I do not. Those who have commented previously are simply trying to tip the balance the other way and (because their areas were slated for corruption first) cast the first stone. Who can blame them? Not me, I am doing the same. I would be surprised if you really believe they would be insulted after reading my reasoning, though of course I am happy to be lambasted if believe otherwise. One more thing of which I am acutely aware is that these types of forums allow anonimity, and those who present themselves as impartial are often anything but. One way to dispel that perception is to comment on all other comments made. Finally I would ask if: 1) Council actually responds to any questions in this forum? 2) Council takes comments here into account with the same weight as signed letters delivered by mail?" 2010-03-15 19:05:27 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "The area Council proposed for housing around Hornsby Town Centre for 20 storey Great Walls is outrageous. This precinct should ideally be kept between 3 to 7 storeys. If Council is serious about young families and the elderly living around the area they should not rezone the Linda Street precinct and leave it as is. These 3 storey walk-ins are much appreciated to the young and elderly because they can’t afford to buy expensive luxury tall apartments with ridiculous strata levies. If you look at all the high rises in Chatswood, people who buy them are rich migrants, investors and speculators, apartment prices there are going off the roof. This will not solve the housing shortage crisis, in fact it will make it worse driving sections of the community out of the area and will never afford owning a home. Hornsby does not deserve this. " 2010-03-15 15:25:40 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "Driving and parking around Hornsby Town Centre is terrible. Imagine with all the 20 storey buildings traffic will be so bad that no business wants to invest in the area. Major town centres should be for work, play and entertain." 2010-03-15 14:51:52 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 xfactor said "There are not many job opportunities in Hornsby other than retail and the odd industry. We need more work opportunities in Hornsby Town Centre not more concrete buildings for housing. Therefore, the precinct around Burdett St, Hunter Lane, Linda St and Hunter St should stay industrial and commercial. " 2010-03-15 14:42:21 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 bellinid said "How do you know that these areas had been subject to "careful analysis" by the so called experts? Do you know something many others don't? Is it perhaps possible that the re-analysis was perhaps more careful than the first? To call the revised stategy a complete back-flip is rather an exaggeration. A complete back flip would have meant that the strategy had completely changed and all new areas chosen etc etc. Stop exaggerating and stop insulting all those people who made valid comments about the original Strategy." 2010-03-15 13:57:24 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 bellinid said "In a way Hornsby Girls High School should be ignored as it is a Selective School, not a local school open to all local students. Comprehensive high schools are somewhat lacking in the area. There are 2 all girls schools - Asquith and Cheltenham, 1 boys school - Asquith and 2 co-ed- Pennant Hills and Carlingford. Single sex schools are notoriously difficult to get into even if you live within the catchment zone. The co-ed schools are out of area for many residents, and perhaps not that handy to get to anyway for some. Students from Hornsby, north of Hornsby, Normanhurst and surrounds now have to go to high schools in St Ives and Turramurra, which are not exactly local or easy to get to. There is a definite need for at least one additional co-ed comprehensive school, perhaps in hornsby near the station." 2010-03-15 13:48:16 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/do-you-have-any-comments-on-the-proposed-use-of-the-churchill-place-courts gwingett said "I think the most appropriate use of this land is residential dwellings. Council could subdivide and sell the land then use the money raised to provide netball and basketball facilities at Tom Hunter Park where parking and toilets are already available. I don't want Council to spend a lot of money on the development of the site if there are insufficient funds to cover running costs. The propsed maintenance arrangements outlined in the Draft Plan seem totally inadequate and I would be surprised if the parties using the courts would be prepared to keep the area free of rubbish and weeds. " 2010-03-14 18:40:04 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Is council happy to sway with the wind based on Not-In-My-Backyard opinions which bombarded Council with "build in Beecroft", "build in Hornsby" demands? The experts had dismissed those after careful analysis yet now they are the prime targets of increased yield. Does that sound like a complete back-flip to you, or that Council has no idea about what it is making decisions on (or both)?" 2010-03-14 11:19:21 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Previous plan As there has been such a radical change from the previous release of the housing strategy, are we to believe that the consultants who provided that version were incompetent? Did Council waste most of the money spent on that version?" 2010-03-14 11:18:15 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/state-government-requirements Radas said "Build concentrations of people near centres of employment, not in far-flung areas of the city, so we can save on infrastructure costs." 2010-03-14 11:17:31 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Transport infrastructure. People catching the train to the city from south of Hornsby during peak hour are faced with the prospect of standing all the way to the city even from Wahroonga on some days. Adding more passengers to the trains at Hornsby will give them no hope of finding a seat. Better to increase the density at Normanhurst, Thornleigh and further down so the new line has its utilization increased. People from Hornsby will not take that line as it is 10 minutes slower than the North Shore line to the city. Even more suitable is having the high-density development closer to centres of employment, then we don't even need to improve the infrastrucutre." 2010-03-14 11:16:01 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Walkability to schools. In the precinct plan Council mentions that the closest school is Hornsby Girls High which is within 1km of the precinct, while at the same time saying the area appears to be undergoing regeneration as there are young families moving in. Where exactly does that leave the high-school boys and infants/primary kids - walking at least 2km to Waitara? I can remember when there was a Hornsby Public School not far from Westfield which Council has allowed to be redeveloped as unit blocks. " 2010-03-14 11:14:02 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Visual impact. Nobody wants to see 20 storey apartments sticking up in the Bushland Shire. Keep the levels to below the ridgelines." 2010-03-14 11:13:06 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Commercial. Currently the auto workshop etc in the area are very handy for commuters, who can drop their cars off before going to work. Removing a bunch of those will restrict availability. " 2010-03-14 11:12:22 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Parking. The local streets of the Hornsby precinct are already over-parked, and as there are never enough parking spots built under high-rises, it can only get worse. People who drive to the station would in future park - where? " 2010-03-14 11:11:49 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Decentralization Is it not better to decentralize along the existing rail infrastructure, improve the commercial facilities at the other stations, and have beautiful apartments like those in the Kuringai Council area scattered amongst the trees rather than ugly precincts like Waitara." 2010-03-14 11:10:47 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Why do you think that the area at Waitara has young couples moving in? It's because the elderly generally can't afford to pay the strata levies." 2010-03-14 11:10:11 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/precincts-in-hornsby2 Radas said "Social aspect Council is showing no social responsibility. Where do the elderly and lower-income people all go? The current stock of housing in the precinct is suitable for the elderly who cannot drive because of age or financial constraints. Replacing the existing blocks with new 20-story apartment will force them to go - where? As an indicator, the older-style three-level apartments have a typical strata levy of $500-600 per quarter for a two-bedroom apartment (equivalent to paying rent of $50 per week, even if you own the property outright) . The newer-style high-rises have levies of $100 per week for a two-bedder (and this will increase after the new building honeymoon period) so effectively you will be marginalizing those who already live in the precinct by forcing them out, and then overseeing a spiral of upward pricing for the privilege of living near Hornsby. Keep the old blocks near Hornsby" 2010-03-14 11:09:41 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Overshadowing of existing apartments. Can you imagine what it will be like to have 20-storey apartments 24m from your place? The draft guidelines play down this aspect, concentrating on how nice everything will look, but look at the details on setbacks, then go and visit Waitara to see how much sunlight will be found at any time except an hour or two each side of midday. Reduce the limits to 5 stories." 2010-03-14 11:07:36 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "The Basix website holds a case study document for high-density housing : http://www.basix.nsw.gov.au/information/common/pdf/cs/mondrian.pdf which highlights the Mondrian development near Green Square. In it they state: "The buildings range in height from four to seven storeys, in order to minimise the overshadowing of communal areas". If the State Government gives this as a good example of environmental design, why would we suggest building 20 stories in Hornsby and not five, and why would we punish those in the precinct more than other precincts. Build lower-rise apartments at more locations." 2010-03-14 11:06:07 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "Waitara as an example. People from outside the shire have commented to me on how bleak the Waitara precinct is with so many high-rise blocks packed into a few blocks. Now Council wants more of the same but even higher - just think of Waitara twice as high.We don't want another Waitara ghetto in Hornsby proper." 2010-03-14 11:04:56 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/draft-20-storey-built-form-concepts Radas said "environmental concerns High-rise apartments are worse users of energy than lower-rise. This is admitted by the state government when it applies a requirement of only 20% energy savings for multi-unit dwellings of 6 floors and above, but 30% for those of 4 or 5 stories. Do not sell your children down the river in terms of global warming for the sake of a developer's profits. Build townhouses (the most energy and water-efficient) or low-to-medium rise apartments." 2010-03-14 11:04:17 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-is-important-to-you-in-considering-open-space-recreation-use-of-old-mans-valley zaskar said "Walking or riding into omv will be a reasonably hard effort. I lot of work needs to go into making the walk or ride there enjoyable. A family with strollers should find it fairly easy. Therefore it needs to be gradual , through beautiful bushland, it should feel safe aswell. Be well lit at night. It shouldn't be a place that feels dangerous. By ensuring things like biketracks, walking tracks and mountain bike tracks or mountain bike park facilities are around, then this keeps plenty of legitimate activity happening and helps deter people that might be scary to a mum pushing a stroller." 2010-03-13 12:56:25 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/which-of-the-suggested-sites-do-you-prefer-and-why Shaz said "The development of a community hub for the ratepayers of Grafton would provide a place for people to meet, relax, hold activities and learn." 2010-03-13 11:53:19 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/5-what-kind-of-improvements-can-we-make-to-the-existing-willoughby-leisure-centre-eg-improve-parking-create-additional-indoor-dry-fitnessgym-space-upgrade-the-25m-pool velo_ruby said "a 50m pool, indoor and heated. The needs of lap swimmers need to be balanced against the needs recreational swimmers and families. As a lap swimmer the current 25m pool is far to busy and full of understandable frustration. A 50m pool would see me take out a yearly pool and gym membership. It is close to home, I can ride there. " 2010-03-13 11:50:42 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/1-do-you-have-any-comments-on-the-aquatic-feasibility-study-and-its-recommendations velo_ruby said "I am surprised that a 50m pool is not a high priority recommendation. North Sydney is an outdoor heated pool (and still quite cold in winter!) Lane Cove outdoor pool closes in winter. I think my closest indoor 50m pool is Ian Thorpe in the city. I would have thought this was a real gap in facilities in the lower north shore. " 2010-03-13 11:46:39 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/4-if-you-havent-used-the-willoughby-leisure-centre-in-the-past-12-months-what-were-the-reasons-eg-it-doesnt-offer-the-programs-i-am-interested-in-the-cost-is-too-high-i-visit-other-venues-that-better-suit-my-needs velo_ruby said "far, far too busy. There are minimal lanes available at peak morning and evening times. Lack of enforcement of lanes. People tend to spread out than stick to their lane. You get slow swimmers in the fast lane and it just ends up too frustrating for everyone. " 2010-03-13 11:44:31 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/which-of-the-suggested-sites-do-you-prefer-and-why Shaz said "I agree 100%, if council has land already available land, ratepayers would benefit more in having funding spent on the actually building and books, not the purchasing and cleaning up of these other sites. The development of a community hub for the ratepayers of Grafton,would open up and improve the use of Market Square " 2010-03-13 11:15:51 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-is-important-to-you-in-considering-open-space-recreation-use-of-old-mans-valley FINX74 said "Hornsby is in the center of all the well established and sustainably built mountain bike tracks/parks of Sydney and beyond and with the sport growing considerably over the last few years with yuonger and older generations realising that it is not only haelthy and fun but an exciting way to see our natural land around us. It is extremely common for groups of riders heading down to Canberra or north towards Newcastle for day and weekend rides. Just think of the income that Hornsby could generate from OMV having a sustainbly built Mountain Bike Park - This would not need much room as a Cross Country Track could head off and wind around Berowa Valley Regional Park thus leaving a lot of space for all the other suggestions put forward. With the Trailhead at OMV it would bring business to the shops in Hornsby and grin's from ear to ear for riders who want to use this area and help maintain it and preserve it........We are green too !!!" 2010-03-12 22:46:23 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-new-services-and-functions-would-you-like-to-see-offered-by-the-library mylibrary said "The new library needs to include seperate areas for kids, teenagers and older people. Quite areas and noisy areas. Heaps more seating and tables than the current building. More Computers with longer booking times with all the modern software and hardware applications. The ability for self service like at Big W - I want to borrow my own books. Organised events and programs - author visits, writers workshops, book clubs and discussion groups. Activities for kids and young people not only during school holidays. Parking that is more than 2 hours so I can do research in the Library without having to move the car and a cafe so I can spend all day their if I want to. An outdoor seating area - a courtyard perhaps off the cafe. Why not a drive-by return chute? " 2010-03-12 22:23:09 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/which-of-the-suggested-sites-do-you-prefer-and-why mylibrary said "Market Square is a great space that could become a real positive focal point for the town 52 weeks a year." 2010-03-12 22:06:19 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/which-of-the-suggested-sites-do-you-prefer-and-why mylibrary said "Why not combine a new CWA/baby health clinic and the Library into Market Square? It makes sense to keep our cultural buildings together so keep it near the community centre and Saraton Theatre. If the cost of buying land (ie the Toyota/Ford sites) comes out of the funding that is available then build it on land council already owns. I'd rather see council spend money on the building and books/computers etc than on acquiring land which then needs buildings demolished before money even goes into the actual library building." 2010-03-12 22:00:30 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-features-would-you-like-to-see-in-your-new-library mylibrary said "Heritage look on the outside, contemporary with all the mod cons on the inside. Be "green" but not if that sacrifices the number of computers or an area for teenagers etc. Don't become the next Glasshouse but have natural lighting. Collect rainwater for the toilets. Public toilets inside the building with a parents room. Areas for author visits, places to sit and relax in groups, space for quite study or reading. Children's section that caters for more than 10 kids at storytime and where kids can be noisy. Cafe which has an area where you can sit outside and read. Parking close by that allows for long visits to the library for study." 2010-03-12 21:48:42 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/are-you-willing-to-subsidise-pensioners what said "Sorry pensioners. If the increase is 'so small' as Council claims on our rates, then all ratepayers can pay it. But really, should the residents of Randwick be paying for beach and sport facilities that the wider Sydney area and tourists use? Council say they won't consider parking meters again after the 'backlash' to the 2005 proposal. But who were the complainers? ALL RANDWICK RESIDENTS were exempt from ALL meters proposed, but this wasn't clearly explained. If parking meters are 'impossible', then why not higher business rates, they being the groups who benefit from visitors." 2010-03-12 16:46:45 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-features-would-you-like-to-see-in-your-new-library library 1 said "Yes, busymum, there is a lift included in the concept plans. The building does need to be raised above the 1:100 flood level in each of the 7 site choices, but a lift and stairs will be included." 2010-03-12 16:07:51 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-new-services-and-functions-would-you-like-to-see-offered-by-the-library busymum said "All of the listed would be great assets to the library. It would be great to see more educational/documentary type DVD's that you can not borrow from the video store available for borrowing." 2010-03-12 06:48:34 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-features-would-you-like-to-see-in-your-new-library busymum said "I would like it to be more user friendly. The current library is not suitable for people with disabilities or mums with prams as they can not access the upper level. The illustrations show a library with a carpark underneath. I hope council are including a lift or travelators in their plans." 2010-03-12 06:45:04 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/which-of-the-suggested-sites-do-you-prefer-and-why busymum said "Not in Market Square. The Fitzroy Street site, or the Pound St carpark are good central locations. South Grafton would be inconvenient and not central for people relying on public transport." 2010-03-12 06:41:29 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-are-your-thoughts-on-the-importance-of-these-projects BruceT said "I fully support the building program. Our public buildings are worthy of being supported and maintained. Too often we live with a certain level of private wealth, but public squalor. I'm very happy that Randwick is more willing than some councils to spend money to clean and maintain parks, build pathways, and quickly remove graffiti. I think that local taxes are much better spent because you can directly see the impact of what you are spending, as opposed to federal taxes where any positive outcome is so far removed from our daily lives." 2010-03-11 12:45:36 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/what-do-you-think-is-the-best-way-forward-for-the-buildings-for-our-community-program-and-how-should-it-be-funded BruceT said "While I support a building program, I found the presentation of the funding to be incredibly confusing, and my suspicion is that it was done so deliberately. The description "having a special 2.71% levy on rates for three years" would make anyone think that the proposal is to add an additional 2.71% for three years and then remove it, however that is not the proposal. It turns out that was is being proposed is a permanent 8.35% increase in rates ((1+.0271)^3-1), phased in over three years. This is above and beyond the rate pegging increases. In last night's Randwick precinct meeting, not a single person in the room understood initially what was being proposed, even after the council representative's presentation. It was only under extensive questioning were we able to find out the true proposal. Whether this is a good idea or not is up to debate, but I find the council's handling of this very dishonest. " 2010-03-11 12:28:19 +1100 http://bangthetable.com/topic/are-you-willing-to-subsidise-pensioners BruceT said "Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is meant by "pensioner"? Is it anyone over age 65, or is it people who are eligible for the age pension (which has income and asset requirements)? I agree with others that I'm happy to help older people in need, but many older people are in a much stronger financial position than young people struggling to pay a mortgage." 2010-03-11 12:17:10 +1100