Comments on the Streetscape Regeneration Project

Is this issue important to you? Votes: 12 User-icon by matt 4:01pm, 30 September 2008

What are your views on the project? How could it be enhanced? 

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Ic_relatesdoc Relates to document: CBD Streetscape Concept Plan (Part 1) (6.1 MB)

maryren Comment 1

1:08pm, 3 October 2008

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Great! this is so important for Singleton. If it doesnt improve it will be beaten by out of town malls like has happened to Maitland and with all the development in the Branxton area this could happen soon killing the main street businesses.

I like the landscaping (try to use natives), I like the alfresco dining, need to be sure there is enough parking.

This could make Singleton a tourism centre for the vineyards.

Easter Comment 1.1

2:42pm, 4 October 2008

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$9M - You've got to be kidding! Yes, we need to make it look a bit better and add some native trees, but this is irrseponsible and completely unnecessary. Take a look at the malls in Maitland and Newcastle, where the population is 5+ times greater than Singleton - they are disastrous. Yes, they look pretty but noone uses them. They all go to the big shopping malls, which we are about to get another of with the Coles development. I, for one, don't want to pay higher rates to cover this over-the-top project.

GordonF Comment 1.2

3:07pm, 4 October 2008

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This is obviously going to benefit a select few businesses and cost rate payers for many years to come. I do not agree with this proposal at all. I agree with 'Easter' that some trees and simple cosmetic adjustments would be of benefit. The budget and concept is excessive - a mall of any size will only make traffic worse and I'd love to know where they think all the alfresco diners are coming from? A drive around the dining venues of Singleton on Fri and Sat nights will show that these predicted patron numbers are farcical.

Kylie Comment 1.2.1

3:14pm, 4 October 2008

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Here! Here! Couldn't agree more with the comments of Easter and GordonF. Have to wonder if maryren is a real person or a pseudonym? Anyway, I COMPLETELY OBJECT to this project and am disgusted that the so called consultation and feedback form provided by Singleton Council does not provide the opportunity to object. The 'consultation' process should be comprehensively reviewed, allowing community members to contribute in an open, honest way.

Gill Comment 1.2.1.1

1:57pm, 10 October 2008

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Kylie - there is an open consultation workshop planned for November and a number of opportunities to view and discuss the concept have been provided at the Singleton Expo, the Broke Fair, the Singleton Show and numerous community Organisations and Committees. You are quite entitled to object to this proposal in any way - it does not have to be on the feedback form which by necessity has to be brief. May I suggest you write to Council and give your reasons for objecting.

KevinR Comment 1.2.1.1.1

8:33pm, 10 October 2008

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Having read through this thread, I can see that Gill is missing the point about the community consultation process. I think you're beating your head against a brick wall, Kylie. Gill is obviously a local business owner and doesn't understand what its like to be an objector - a tough process considering that most people are either apathetic or too ignorant to write a letter. The only people that bother with these surveys are those with something to gain - it's a harsh reality of how Local Govt worx.

Gill Comment 1.2.2

2:09pm, 10 October 2008

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Gordon - I think the whole town will benefit from this project, not only the businesses, but please understand that it is still only at concept stage and so the cost is also a concept - it can be modified to suit what the majority wants. "Shoppers" ie ratepayers also benefit from increased choice and improved surroundings when we visit the CBD and by providing good shopping facilities, we may attract some more skilled people to the areas we are currently desperately short. Please note that there will be NO MALL in the main st- never has been, never will be.

Kylie Comment 1.2.2.1

5:15pm, 10 October 2008

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I'm very interested to know how it is that modifications are made to suit the 'majority' and, more importantly, who is responsible for determining and interpreting the wishes of the 'majority'? I ask this, because I note that I'm not the only community member who feels like we can't have any real input. This process obviously meets the minimum legal requirements, however I believe it is grossly inadequate for a decision of this magnitude. It's a lot of money for a long-term outcome that will have lasting implications for those who are still standing when the mining boom ends.

tadz Comment 1.2.2.2

6:02pm, 5 November 2008

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I disagree with the statement that the cost is only a "concept". Singleton Council is already spending money on the streetscape through the costs associated with design plans, wages paid to council staff who are focused on streetscape instead of other work, and the cost of the community consultation. Renting a shopfront to display the plans in? what a ridiculous way to spend ratepayers money!

tadz Comment 1.2.3

7:37pm, 5 November 2008

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I'm curious where they think the dining VENUES are going to come from, let alone the patrons! I might miss a couple since I'm typing this from the comfort of home, but between Ryan Avenue and Castlereagh Street I can think of 12 food venues. A chinese restaurant,chicken spot, and three pizza shops(their main business being takeaway food), a fruit & veg place that makes sandwiches, 2 bakeries, subway, 2 pubs, and "olive & lime". It might sound like a lot, but when you consider that most of these businesses rely on customers who want to grab a quick takeaway, streetscape is as negative for them as it is for the banks, realtors, etc, who are in this area.

BUBUS Comment 1.2.3.1

9:45pm, 26 November 2008

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If the dining\Alfresco precinct was for the use of the Hotels and food business in William Street, why is it that not one of the business owners from these food outlets, restaurants or hotels were present at the Streetscape forum for their area. Did they not know it was on. I feel it was a bad lack of support all round from all business, If the pubs wanted this so bad, why a no show of support for it. Just wondering that is all.

HelenJ Comment 1.3

4:23pm, 4 October 2008

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My views on this project are that I object to it. It could be enhanced by reducing the budget to a sensible, practical size with money put toward planting some trees and a solution to connecting old John Street at the Central Hotel. Extraordinary waste of resources when we need some much done in other areas.

tadz Comment 1.4

7:42pm, 5 November 2008

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Nothing Singleton does will ever make it a tourism centre for the vineyards. With such a wide choice of restaurants sprinkled among the vineyards around the Pokolbin and Lovedale areas, very few people will make a 15 minute drive to dine in Singleton.

Dazz Comment 1.5

5:54am, 27 November 2008

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Maitland Mall and Newcastle's Hunter Street Mall lost a lot of business to Greenhills and Kotara/Charlestown respectively and never got it back, most of the year it's like a "Ghost Town" there.

I guess Singleton has the advantage of having only one CBD area at this stage so even with the big redevelopment of Gowrie St Mall, people will still be frequenting the nearby John St shops and services etc.

moby10 Comment 2

10:53am, 7 October 2008

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Why does a self appionted organisation such as the Chamber of Commerce have so much influence over this project. If they want it so much let them pay for it.It is bad enough with the lack of parking near P.O. how can it be better with none.

Gill Comment 2.1

1:41pm, 10 October 2008

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The Chamber of Commerceis not self appointed - all businesses are entitled to join and have their say. Neither do we have "so much" influence - we have 4 members invited by the Council to sit on the the Advisory Committee, given that the CBD improvement greatly affects the businesses in it. All people in the Singleton Shire have the opportunity to have input into this project as it affects all who live here

Kylie Comment 2.1.1

4:36pm, 10 October 2008

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4 members on the advisory committee is 4 MORE than the community currently has, although I understand that there are 2 positions about to be announced for community members to access. There is VERY LITTLE opportunity for the community to have objections - only opportunities to agree with the project. This is entirely inequitable and will hopefully be addressed. I don't think anyone is entirely against the idea of making John Street more attractive; what is most objectionable about this proposal is the process being employed to have it approved and the outrageous budget attached to the 'concept'.

BUBUS Comment 2.1.1.1

8:27pm, 18 November 2008

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I understand that the positions have now closed for the community representatives and will go to council on the 24th of November. Feedback on the proposal closes on the 28th of November then the proposal or concept goes to council on the 15th December. I am hoping that with the input from all the forums and the business input that it will be a true and fair evaluation and for the best of the community. I think that we need to look at this seriously and look at the concept as a whole, I agree we need some beautification and some parts of town need work but not to 9 million dollars worth of work.

moby10 Comment 2.1.2

11:31am, 11 October 2008

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The chamber have 4 Reps. The Council the rest. If we do get 2 community reps from where will they be sourced? The pro Faction? If Council really wanted a open discussion on this issue they wouldnt have produced the Survey that they have given us.

tadz Comment 2.1.2.1

6:29pm, 5 November 2008

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I totally agree with this comment. The survey provided by council is completely one sided. Why wasn't there a question that allowed you to respond "No, don't proceed with streetscape"? Shouldn't the very first question have been something like "Do you think council should spend nine million dollars beautifying John Street - Yes or No"?

It is a very biased and leading questionnare, which is probably one of the reasons why people think the whole streetscape concept is "fishy".

Kayleen Comment 3

8:41pm, 7 October 2008

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Why is there no opportunity to VOTE NO for this project? The only way the community can object on here is to post 'disagreement' with yes voters and write comments that will probably never be read anyway? This whole process smells funny - I think it could be enhanced by canning it altogether!

Gill Comment 4

3:04pm, 10 October 2008

2 users agree with this post 18 users disagree with this post

This is great news for Singleton - it will take us into the future and provide our next generations with the sort of facilities that will allow them to shop and be entertained here and not have to go to Maitland or Newcastle. A number of people seem to be upset about the cost per year (Max about $40)but have you thought about how much you spend on petrol and car maintenance getting there and back? You'd be lucky to get 2 trips to Newcastle for that amount. Yes we need to make sure we get the traffic and parking right as Singleton grows, this will become critical.

Kylie Comment 4.1

4:53pm, 10 October 2008

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I think you're dreaming if you believe that Singleton will ever compete with Maitland and Newcastle for shopping and entertainment. We have 1 cinema, no professional theatre, limited seasonal access to other areas of the arts, no beach, no markets,no Bunnings, no Harvey Norman, no Westfield Kotara or Greenhills. There's not even access to quality arts education here, which is why so many of our school-age population commute daily or weekly to Maitland and Newcastle. The fact is, people will always travel to Newcastle for their culture fix and for the wide variety of shopping and 'lifestyle' activities. The arguement that the price of petrol would deter people from pursuing activities that they'll never have access to in a rural community is clutching at straws. This is the pure and simple reality of living in a rural location. Let's get the traffic and parking right FIRST, and then we can look at the John Street project. You can't undo a project of this size once it has been completed - but with some patience and some sensible planning, we could get the foundations right first, then construct an appropriate frame from which to build.

DAS Comment 4.1.1

6:43pm, 28 October 2008

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Why is such a minority always so negative to the growth of Singleton. Look at the division the councillors have in their chamber. Everyone just loves to whinge in Singleton. Growth and Development is vital to Singleton. I applaud the Streetscape project, but like many other developments in town, i know this will take longer then the intended 3 years, purely because of people carrying on like babies. $9million dollars is a lot to an indivual, but to a town, who has previously spent $5 million on a Library. Surely its affordable. How many people would use the Street mall in comparison to our Library. I would suggest a little more then double. If you dont want to see your town prosper, move to Cessnock!

tadz Comment 4.1.1.1

7:05pm, 5 November 2008

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How can you claim that a minority is negative to this project, when it's clear from the figures on this site that the MAJORITY of those who have signed up to bangthetable.com are against this!

Comparing the planned over-expenditure on John Street to the previous over-expenditure on a new library does NOT make streetscape a positive project.

I do want to see Singleton prosper, and I firmly believe that this will do the reverse. I consider Singleton to be my home town, and would prefer to support its businesses than travel elsewhere. However, I live near Branxton (but within Singleton Shire), I work in Muswellbrook, my partner works in Newcastle. Reduced parking in the main street, and the traffic problems that are likely to accompany the "pedestrian focus" will encourage us to shop elsewhere

BUBUS Comment 4.2

8:36pm, 18 November 2008

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I feel that small business will cop the brunt of the expenditure will suffer initially from this project. Increased rates, icrease in the cleaning fee from $7.70 per lineal metre to over $19.00per lineal metre is a great cost. Some are just that. Small business, not large corporation that if they have a slow week the rest of the chain is there to lean on. I feel there is too many medium strips in place impeding entry into some business without doing a loop to get back to the business, especially in south station precinct. and what about taking all but 9 parks away from the station. I feel we need to maintain as much of parking at the station as we can if not increase. Signage is a must to at least inform visitors that we have more to offer. I feel the raised section f the road in the alfresco will slow traffic too much and cause a bottle neck, Another area I have noticed is that there are too many pedestrian crossings close to intersections. York and Gowrie. I feel these could be moved for safety and let us think of a round about at Gowrie Street to allow good flow of traffic and lights outside of commonwealth bank to alleviate people crossing at will and at least give a decent continual flow of traffic.

Kayleen Comment 5

8:39pm, 10 October 2008

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Gill, perhaps you should leave this forum for the non-business community and let us have our crack at it? Fair go!

Kylie Comment 6

8:46pm, 10 October 2008

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Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.

Claire Comment 7

11:23am, 13 October 2008

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Singleton is a lovely town and I love living here but it is looking a little worn down. I believe that the streetscape project is excellent and gives Singleton the edge for the future. If we don't do it now it will only cost twice as much in a few years time.

Barteast Comment 7.1

8:48pm, 13 October 2008

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Barteast Comment 8

8:49pm, 13 October 2008

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Yes, a little run down - BUT NOT $6-9 MILLION WORTH OF RUN DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

tadz Comment 8.1

7:10pm, 5 November 2008

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The areas that have been paved and had new bins and seating put in look really good. Why not just finish doing the rest of the street in this way, rather than going so over-the-top with streetscape? And I believe the streetscape concept means that this previous work would be ripped up!? Think of the money that council already spent doing this work, that will now be destroyed. Think of the fact that in 20 years time the "future generations" people have been discussing will probably be talking about how faded and rundown streetscape now looks. I picture them complaining about the lack of parking, speedhumps, and poor traffic flow - all for a barely used al-fresco area - and lobbying council to return the main street to its current, practical state.

BUBUS Comment 8.1.1

8:42pm, 18 November 2008

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I agree that what we have done so far is great, I drove down the main street tonight and their was not a sole in sight. I feel the Alfresco idea may be not good for the town. Has anyone gone to the forums to actually look at the concept. some of it is great. The paving will remain and not be ripped up it will be enhanced. I have both my negatives and my positives but feel we can not waste 9 million dollars when we have no Visitors information centre, and we need to take ownership of our main park. Some people need to have a look at this concept before passing on wrong info

admin Comment 9

Site Moderation & Administration

10:36am, 14 October 2008

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COMMENT FROM ADMINISTRATOR

There have been a suspiciously large number of sign ups for users in Singleton coming from a single computer (IP address).

This does happen from time to time when the computer is in a school or library or where a family is involved. However, in this instance we have 29 signups from a single address mostly well outside business hours and all exhibit virtually identical voting patterns (against the development).

If there is an explanation for this other than it being a somewhat clumsy attempt to undermine the consultative process we would like to hear it. In the absence of an explanation we will simply include details of the activity from these users in our report to Council so that they can take this activity into account in their analysis of the consultation. We have already notified Council of this activity.

For online consultation to function properly and allow the community to participate at their convenience there has to be an open sign up process. We believe that transparency is the key to making these processes work and will always inform the community if we believe that attempts are being made to subvert the process.

Ronald Comment 10

7:51pm, 14 October 2008

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This project is not within the needs of the town at this stage. The project is the result of one persons interpretation and has obviously taken considerable resources to get to the stage as touted by first the Chamber and one member of council staff, then followed by Council. Which dog is wagging what tail?

There are a multitude of more realistic projects that this rediculously huge sum of money could be spent on. Our roads are a disgrace and our traffic control appears short of non-existant. A few chosen ones are driving the desire to create rather than look at the needs of the community rationally. I believe it is similar to "the emperor's new clothes" approach.

charlie28 Comment 11

7:13pm, 23 November 2008

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A fresh look that will capture the imagination of many, yet changing the oppinions of others may be difficult,but through the correct channels, and the right people, you might just change the views of the minority/majority?

To bring the right people together to be proactive with the feedback that has been put forward is the Councils very first step,then we can start and respond to the differing oppinions in a productive manner.

Dazz Comment 12

10:28am, 26 November 2008

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Is anyone concerned by the fact that the proposed re-development / expansion of Gowrie Street Mall has been indefinitely postponed by the developers, surely this makes a huge difference as to the *need* of this project to support John Street businesses from losing their customers to this project?

SunnySingo Comment 13

11:40am, 26 November 2008

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Singleton would benefit highly from this. It would attract tourism but also encourage those who live in Singeton to dine 'alfresco' and also support the businesses on John St. Support the town and encourage making a difference to its appeal. Those against the proposal should be more positive about where they live and encourage its growth.

Dazz Comment 13.1

5:30am, 27 November 2008

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If the Alfresco dining precinct is going to be Annes Lane, as in the plan, I think we'd all be better off having it be Burns Lane. Annes lane doesn't even have shopfronts facing into it, but I will admit it would have little impact on traffic, apart from the for the pizza delivery drivers and those seeking to beat the sequence of the lights to the North by going to Ryan Avenue when the lights change against John Street Traffic.

Dazz Comment 14

5:35am, 27 November 2008

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I think we have to be mindful about narrowing road widths with plantings and median strips as in some parts of the plan, these roads weren't designed as avenues and it'll mean either narrowing footpaths and trafficable areas or losing convenient parking places. Have a look at the trucks and buses that use parts of the road system in the plan.

Parking is the other key issue, I'd like to keep a fair proportion of the parking areas (even if it is limited to 15minutes to 1h parking) in John Street especially near the banks and Post Office.

Dazz Comment 14.1

5:48am, 27 November 2008

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Then again, I see cars the same cars parked for hours in the 15m parking zones we have now.

And people parked or standing in the no stopping zones either side of the pedestrian crossing near the Commonwealth bank. As the plan shows, there would be no problems here with the plan as those areas are removed and replaced with landscaping - would Singletonians just park on that now? :)

Seriously it is a good idea to create better safety and vision around the crossings and intersections along John Street especially with those offset side-street crossings we have now, people are hard to see until your almost committed to driving around the corner.

If you look at the plan, there are only some sections of the main street that have parking removed, it isn't as bad as some make it out to me.

Dazz Comment 15

5:51am, 27 November 2008

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I'd like to see a roundabout at the John/York Street intersection to help slow traffic and make right-turns and u-turns easier. Perhaps one near the Northern end too (Elizabeth Street?). More opportunity for landscaping and feature signage ;)

murray.v Comment 16

11:31am, 24 December 2008

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Hi, firstly why does this concept plan not expand its view to the many streets encompassed by the plan, that are residential and directly affected by changes to traffic flow changes or parking availability in John st, it seems that the streetscape idea is more concerned with John streets outward appearance than the safety of residents and neglected infrastructure needs for streets connected to it. Lets not get blinded by trees and drinking opportunities in the main street, at the expense of footpaths,child safety, drainage and other important issues facing singletons residential streets now and in the future.