Sign In
or Create a new account
Do you feel that the rail line inhibits development of the City? (continued pt3)
The major argument leveled against the rail line into the CBD is that it isolates the City from the foreshore and Honeysuckle. Do you agree with this and if so what should be done about it?
Comment 1 30 Oct 2008, 10:47 PM
Seize the opportunity being offered by GPT to actually improve our city and capitalize on its natural beauty by getting rid of the ugly and divisive rail line.
Comment 1.1 30 Oct 2008, 11:22 PM
If I could trust that the developers would do what they say I might be willing to consider the break at Wickham. However the mess of development that is honeysuckle compared to what it could have been has made me so sad (and mad)that I despair of any vision in th epresent climate. Honeysuckle is great if you are one of th elucky ones eating or walking on th ededicated area but the travelling has sun-less wind tunnels with buildings in a narrow road corridor, one lane each way with no dedicated bike path. I watched a bike rider (normal comuter type not racer) being abused by a car driver who couldn't get past him on the narrow road last week. It was frightening. Expecting people to ride up through the pedestrians around the people eating on sidewalks near the Brewery is ridiculous & dangerous. I thought the article in NH 19th Oct by the Prof of Urban Planning at UWS was really good - pointing out 4 things that cities in renewal need ie not just shopping, but memories, a democratic place for everyone to gather & use, plus cultural activities.
Comment 1.2 4 Nov 2008, 2:06 PM
Here Here Fran.
The people like you are the majority. We just dont make as much noise as the others and we should!
Comment 1.2.1 6 Nov 2008, 9:30 PM
Exactly kmayb BUT it is high time we did!! Newcastle deserves this development and rejuvenated CBD
And if we OUR proud of what we have it is people like US that need to stand up and let our voices be heard we ARE the majority, we need to make a stand!!
This oportunity is tooooo good to become another wasted dream for the City!!!!!!
Comment 1.3 6 Nov 2008, 9:31 PM
Exactly Fran BUT it is high time we did!! Newcastle deserves this development and rejuvenated CBD
And if we OUR proud of what we have it is people like US that need to stand up and let our voices be heard we ARE the majority, we need to make a stand!!
This oportunity is tooooo good to become another wasted dream for the City!!!!!!
Comment 1.4 7 Nov 2008, 2:01 PM
To revitalize our CBD we don;'t need to remove the railway line in fact it would be counterproductive.
Comment 1.5 7 Nov 2008, 3:37 PM
Newcastle is a regional base area ... not a parochial waterhole - people come down from Nelson Bay/Lemon Tree to catch the ferry to take the train and visa versa... similarly the west looks to Newcastle. This city has a terrible infrastructure, and needs fast intercity services.
All reasonable sized cities in the world are serviced by trains. Newcastle should be extending it's line up the hill, through Charlestown and putting in a western loop. If the council/developers were interested in us the current crossing in Newcastle would never have occurred. Like Brisbane and Perth it would have gone over/under or part of the buildings ... not the cheapest shortsighted option they took. bwana555
Comment 1.6 10 Nov 2008, 8:00 PM
Hey Fran,
Why not rip up all the ugly rail lines so we can have more beuatiful roads, cars and carbon monoxide?
Comment 2 30 Oct 2008, 11:58 PM
How does GPT's masterplan of development over our foreshore green space capitalise on our city's natural beauty?
Take a look at the first 8 seconds of this clip from GPT and ask: Where's our foreshore gone???
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=59mQxOPNR2A
The rail line is no more or less devisive than a main road. You simply must provide crossings to get across. Unfortuately, the provision of crossings has not kept up with recent construction and land use changes in Newcastle. That is not the fault of the rail line. Crossings are inexpensive. But give up your rail line and you'll never get it back.
Wharf road is very more…
Comment 2.1 31 Oct 2008, 8:29 AM
The green corridor is there with a gap between the trees if you have a closer look... And I just watched it twice to make sure... Your seeing things ??
Comment 2.2 2 Nov 2008, 6:54 AM
A railway line is a lot more division than a road! With a road you wait for the traffic to clear and then you cross the road and get where you want to go - ie, the other side. Not so with a rail line - one can't scale fences and walk across the line to get to another side - you have to walk 100s of metres down Hunter St to find a crossing area - this inhibits people's easy and natural movement from the CBD to the foreshore. The railine is a major division.
Comment 2.2.1 2 Nov 2008, 2:24 PM
Even more so for a person in a wheelchair or with disabilities !! That is reality !
Comment 2.2.2 5 Nov 2008, 9:43 PM
You won't need a ladder or an abseiling rope. A pedestrian crossing will get you across the railway line. One with lights and a gate.
If there are plenty of them at well placed locations then you won't have to walk 100 metres.
Comment 2.3 5 Nov 2008, 9:21 AM
Not only the wheelchairs, what about families with kids in Prams....? Whats wrong with Buses using a concreted over Rail line then everyone gets what they want. Count how many people use the train all the way to Newcastle Station its not worth maintaining!
Comment 3 31 Oct 2008, 12:01 AM
San Diego is not inhibited by its harbour front rail line. Why can't Newcastle do the same?
Comment 3.1 31 Oct 2008, 8:39 AM
Mick... If you have a closer look, That train track is not water front, it is set back three block with buildings in between. The scope of that picture is totally different to Newcastles CBD. If you kept that video going you will find that your not in the City Centre, but the outskirts of the City... And as you pointed out.... Light rail is accessed to the City !! Thanks for showing that clip as you have just shown that light rail ie: A Tram System is a viable solution within a City That is on a waterfront were the fences could be pulled down !
Comment 3.2 31 Oct 2008, 1:47 PM
What has San Diego got to do with it. How can you compare the two, given the population difference, not to mention the city scape and cultural differences. Newcastle, whilst not being totally unique, is it's own city and the issues relating to this matter are far opposites to what other cities may have done. The rail has been there since day 1 and totally underused and costing the state a small fortune to operate for the sake of a few - rip it up and start over. Build it and they will come - leave it and they will stuff this city up. Sorry to those few who use the rail, but get over it.
Comment 3.3 10 Nov 2008, 8:57 PM
Because San Diego is not Newcastle. There are probably dozens of factors that inhibit Newcastle that are not present in San Diego...who knows. Perhaps it is the fact that Newcastle is maybe a tenth of its size? The fact is Novacastrians will not cross over a rail line to move between the city and the harbour and a way must be found around this. As I see it removing the rail line is the way.
Comment 3.3.1 11 Nov 2008, 5:49 PM
The people must be a very lazy lot if they refuse to walk a short distance. Funny though when you look at the large number of people who use the overhead bridges between Scott Street and The Foreshore every day.
Comment 4 31 Oct 2008, 9:30 AM
Jodi
Look around the world. By maintaining a heavyrail line to the CBD you are holding Newcastle back. Move with the times, allow the city to move into the 21st Century. Ditch the line and make the whole area something to be proud of, which it is not now, exactly the opposite,at this time a shame and disgrace to Newcastle.
Comment 4.1 2 Nov 2008, 11:13 AM
Look around the world TODAY, not in the 1970's. Cities all around the world are fighting to put rail back in place after they made the mistake of ripping it out, and instead of fixing the problems with the current rail line, you want to just rip it out and make parking problems in town worse.
Comment 4.1.1 2 Nov 2008, 2:35 PM
Why not have a light rail/tram system along that green Corridor ?? That means we are still connected to the Wickham proposal
The Obahn, a bus system that uses light rail
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/guides/obahn1.html
Also the tram system
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/tramline_extension.html
We are in 2008 not the 1970's technology is totally different nowadays & could be utilised in such a proposal.
There is more than 2 options as we have been given, that is reality !!
Comment 4.1.1.1 10 Nov 2008, 8:31 PM
QUOTE The Obahn, a bus system that uses light rail END QUOTE
And how much does the O-bahn (which uses a concrete track, not light rail track) divide the northern suburbs of Adelaide? Their are only a few places for traffic to cross, and can't use a level crossing to cross an o-bahn. Search for some videos on the Adelaide O-bahn.
Comment 4.1.2 3 Nov 2008, 10:15 PM
What city's Bruce?
Are they looking to re-introduce a great mass of concrete, steel, overhead lines and steps to traverse it all? Or are they perhaps moving toward subway or light rail systems, which is far more likely.
It's easy to offer the opinion that all city's everywhere are looking to put back the rail that they thoughtlessly tore up, but making broad statements like this is hardly sufficient to turn the tide of 'public' opinion, because we live in Newcastle, not 'some other city', and we can see our city crumbling before our eyes.
If we can do anything to attract development here in our city we should do it, and not be influenced by what is occurring somewhere else. I am sure that other city's are not looking to Newcastle for development ideas but they just might if we can bite the bullet and make a few hard and momentous decisions for the good of our city.
Newcastle is unique, and any decisions we make must be made for the good of our city.
Comment 4.1.3 5 Nov 2008, 5:43 PM
Bruce and others - which cities, real examples with real passenger numbers please. Where is a city putting a heavy rail line through the middle of a CBD for 2km to improve travel times for 25 passengers per train? Our trains carry an average of 25 passengers per day past Wickham. What sort of volumes do these other systems carry?
Comment 4.1.3.1 5 Nov 2008, 5:59 PM
25 passengers per day!!! Where did you get that from?? And the numbers are exactly what will prevent anything being done. There will be no more passengers on light rail, trams or anything else so it it simply not feasible economically to change from what we have.
Comment 4.1.3.1.1 8 Nov 2008, 7:37 PM
An obvious typo - 25 Passengers per train (and falling). Now which city is putting a heavy railway through the middle of their city to improve the travel time for 25 passengers per train by 5 minutes? What sort of volumes are they carrying?
Comment 4.2 7 Nov 2008, 3:20 PM
Hey what part of the world are you quoting? They have had to replace rail where it's been taken out in Auckland by the harbour.... and I can't think of a city in Europe that has had its rail line removed. Enlighten me. bwana555
Comment 4.3 7 Nov 2008, 3:27 PM
Am looking around the world... You tell me a of a city that removes its rail line - am open to an educated debate.
Comment 4.3.1 10 Nov 2008, 9:14 PM
well maybe Newcastle can lead the way in this. Our city needs the rail line to be taken up, it's not just a whim, our city is dying! Can't you see that? Just about everyone else can..business owners, architects, developers, councilors and on and on and on. The majority of people can see a great opportunity for this city and it would be a sad day if we let it slip out of our fingers.
Comment 4.4 7 Nov 2008, 10:25 PM
I've looked around the world .... The rail line is not the problem in Newcastle. Catching up to the 21st Century is not good enough ... we need to be planning further ahead re fuel supplies, and public transport routes re future expansion to make and keep the city relevant. Brisbane came up with an effective plan to keep the city alive on weekends. We need to brainstorm this a bit. Markets are good... but people need easy access and fresh fruit,vegs,& foods ... artsy stuff doesn't cut it for regular monthly markets.
Hunter St is a shambles... and I have reservations about what Honeysuckle is going to look like in 10 years, art drawings aside.
Comment 4.5 10 Nov 2008, 8:05 PM
Jodi,
All the best cities have heavy rail into them, including Sydney. Also San Diego, which is one of the cities referred to by GPT.
Comment 4.5.1 11 Nov 2008, 5:11 AM
Move to the 21st century?! Hey we are already there and we still have cars (19th century invention), boats(BC invention) and aeroplanes (early 20th century invention). Seems to be an obsession with rail and the Victorian era in some people's minds.
Comment 5 31 Oct 2008, 10:10 AM
Absolutely!! If the rail line were removed I am sure more people would be encouraged to take a walk in to the CBD which would see a rejuvenation in shops, cafes and restaurants. Who hasn't been in to the mall and faced the ugly barrier between CBD and the harbour? Newcastle needs to take a proactive stand and come in to the 21st century. We are trying to promote our region with tourism and we have an ugly, tired CBD to present to our visitors.How many tourists on the luxury liners who dock in our harbour actually visit the CBD and why would they? No, they all take bus tours and transfers to the Hunter Valley. How many empty trains make the lonely journey into Newcastle Station? If the rail line was terminated at Civic or Wickham and we had a light rail loop which was easy to access it would unlock our city's potential.
Comment 5.1 31 Oct 2008, 5:09 PM
Liz, you are still faced with the ugliness of Hunter Street. How will that change, by magic? There has been absolutley no evidence provided to prove that the number of people frequenting the CBD will improve if the rail line is removed. Just words. We need something more substantial than that. The GPT proposal cannot perform the impossible.
Comment 5.1.1 2 Nov 2008, 6:58 AM
Hunter St isn't the eye sore, the rail line, fences etc are the ugly barrier that separates the CBD from the lovely foreshore.
Comment 5.2 2 Nov 2008, 11:14 AM
Its ugly because nothing has been done to beautify it.
And if the rail line is removed, where are all those people walking around in the CBD going to park?
Comment 5.3 5 Nov 2008, 7:27 PM
Open your eyes! The mall does have a walk over to the foreshore which is utilised. How long is it since you walked around Newcastle? Most people seem to want to drive around and wharf road gets very congested. The proactive stand Newcastle needs is to encourage more people (by rail) to unique shops & cafes that the GPT shopping centres don't have. The rail line had not stopped people buying off the plan new apartments at Newcastle Beach. Perhaps a lot of the future residents are relying on the rail for transport!
Comment 5.3.1 7 Nov 2008, 9:33 AM
JoeBlo - I have worked in Newcomen Street for 2 years, I can see the harbour from my office, and the overpass is probably 300m walk from my door. I have ate lunch on the harbour approximately 3 times in those 2 years. Reason why? The rail line is a barrier, and I do not consider the harbour as being 'close' as I have to walk 300mm down the road to go over the overpass, and then up past the brewery to sit on the grass, and then traverse the same route back again. Whereas if there was no rail line, I could walk from my office the harbour in about 3 minutes.
And judogazza45 - The GPT proposal is only part of the solution, as by them developing the mall area, and having the rail line removed, it will then become attractive for other developers to invest in the area, as well as business. Hunter street will never become beautified while 1 out of every 3 shops is derelict and unoccupied. And this will not change, until a company such as GPT makes the commitment and investment to develop the mall areas and CBD on a large scale.
Comment 5.3.1.1 7 Nov 2008, 1:20 PM
There would need to be far more than the GPT development to achieve anything. It will simply provide more of what is already available in the Mall and that in itself will not bring people back into the CBD away from their suburban shopping centres. You talk about the GPT proposal attracting other developers. If they are waiting in the wings just waiting for a chance to get on board then who are they?? What are there proposals? If indeed there were any, then I am sure there would be plans on their part to participate. I think that comment is simply being made to try and justify removal of line with nothing concrete there in the way of other development. So far in this debate, no one has been able to say what will be done for the remainder of Hunter Street. Is it to be left as it is??
Any development in Newcastle CBD needs to bring in something that is unique, different and has the ability to draw shoppers aways from their suburban centres. The GPT development will not do that.
Comment 5.3.1.1.1 7 Nov 2008, 1:48 PM
To draw shoppers away from their suburban centres ???!!! What about the increasing number of residents who call Newcastle CBD their home? They won't be leaving the CBD to shop at Charlestown and Kotara if there is a reasonable facility in town.
As for your comments about developers, I can think of at least one developer in the West End who has been buying up large parcels of property down there. I am sure they are just waiting in the wings until someone takes the big step of investing some $$$$'s in the CBD.
Your attitude and those of others like you is why our city is in the state it is now.
Comment 5.3.1.1.1.1 8 Nov 2008, 2:07 PM
Are you going to wait for the population of Newcastle CBD to grow in order to be able to support itself? Of course not. At one time the only place to shop was in the CBD with the exception of Mayfield and a few small centres. The growth of the suburban complexes has taken away that. People shop where it is convenient, free to park, all in one area and air conditioned. The Newcastle CBD offers none of that.
Comment 5.3.1.1.1.1.1 11 Nov 2008, 9:19 PM
As you are so informed, perhaps you can tell me what the population of the CBD is at present, as well as the projected numbers to be inhabiting the Royal Project and Lee Wharf, let alone those who work in town that may just venture to the shopping precinct once it is user friendly.
Or is it the chicken before the egg for you?
Comment 5.3.1.1.1.1.1.1 12 Nov 2008, 3:26 PM
I have no idea of the current population of the CBD nor projected populations. What I am saying is there needs to be many, many more people come into the CBD to live first and foremost. The area needs to be self supporting most of all. In that way there is less of a need for out of towners to come in and provide the support. Do you know the current and projected populations or is this just a furphy on your part?? These are figures that are occasionally bandied about without any real certainty. We can never know how successful or in demand any residential project will be.
Comment 5.4 7 Nov 2008, 3:24 PM
The CBD is ugly because malls are outdated, and the graffiti is 3rd world. Cities have good transport .... and rail links so people can go out, eat, drink and enjoy themselves and train home. Give me an example of a city in Europe the size of Newcastle without a train link to its centre, please? bwana555
Comment 5.4.1 10 Nov 2008, 9:21 PM
If the rail line were removed to wickham we would still have rail in to our city. Wickham is an inner city suburb...
Comment 5.4.1.1 11 Nov 2008, 5:53 PM
There is absolutely no logical reason to terminate one system of transport so close to its destination and replace it with another, just to perform the same function.
Comment 6 31 Oct 2008, 5:21 PM
The rail line is an inhibitor to the city's growth. We need a new vision. I was in Cork (Ireland) in 2004 and they were in the process of laying a new tram network. Most cities of Newcastle's size in Europe have a tram network (and bus) but limited rail - intercity mainly. I would like to see a streetcar run from a new train terminus at Wickham up to Nobby's Beach, around The Esplanade, back along Hunter St then along Darby up to Merewether Beach looping back through The Junction and Cooks Hill back to Wickham. What a tourist drawcard it could be.
Comment 6.1 2 Nov 2008, 11:20 AM
Its quite true that European cities substantially larger than Newcastle cannot afford the expense of a new heavy rail line right into the heart of their CBD.
But no European city that already had a heavy rail line providing interurban services to the neighboring major metropolitan area and regional transport services to the main growth areas of the next few decades would be daft enough to rip it out.
Comment 6.1.1 2 Nov 2008, 2:41 PM
Wickham is still in the Newcastle CBD ??
Newcastle west is part of Newcastle CBD... Do we really need heavy rail to Newcastle station... No we don't as Wickham is still part of the Newcastle CBD !!
Comment 7 31 Oct 2008, 6:22 PM
I don't believe that the presence of the rail line represents a real barrier to connectivity between Hunter street and the foreshore. Certainly nothing that could not be solved without a relatively small increment of infrastructure (extra overpasses) and appropriate design of new developments.
Consequently I also don't believe that the presence of the rail line it is a barrier to development of the old CBD. The sort of redevelopment proposed by GPT is long overdue (I have no issue with it whatsoever), by I don't understand why it requires truncation of the rail line. Most developments of this nature want more…
Comment 7.1 2 Nov 2008, 11:23 AM
The last really hits the nail on the head ... state government at the moment could barely afford the tens of millions of dollars it would cost to put in a terminating station at Wickham or Civic ... there's no chance of spending the massive amount required to rip out the line PLUS getting a new transport system on top of it.
Comment 7.1.1 10 Nov 2008, 9:30 PM
So is this what the argument has come down to? Whether or not the state government is going to be willing to spend the money in Newcastle to breath life into it? So we have to live in a dump just because the state government are not inclined to spend money in safe seats. They've got money to spend elsewhere. I don't think we should be satisfied with that Bruce.
Comment 7.1.1.1 11 Nov 2008, 5:54 PM
The state government has no money to spend anywhere!! Read the papers and listen to the news please!!
Comment 7.2 3 Nov 2008, 3:44 PM
Delayed by getting of a train and onto a bus? If you have ever had to sit at a crossing for ten minutes only to have the gates go back up again after no train has been past (this happens quite a bit) then maybe you wouldn't drive either and you may want to stay in Maitland.
Comment 7.3 7 Nov 2008, 1:56 PM
I find it hard to fathom that the residents of Newcastle should curtail to the needs of commuters from Maitland and the like. We need action NOW to try and turn this neglected city around and to move forward and most of the ones causing a fuss don't even live here!! Go figure....
Comment 7.4 12 Nov 2008, 5:07 PM
Dear IanH,
thank you for your contribution to this debate. This is one of the most articulate and well argued pieces that I have read.
Comment 8 2 Nov 2008, 4:09 PM
The rail line does not inhibit the the development of the city any more than the harbour, the ocean or "The Hill". They are all valuable features of our city that we can enjoy.
It is a valuable convenience for retirees and others living in the east end of the city to be able to catch trains from Newcstle Station to Sydney and other places. It is also a big plus for people to be able to travel to the Newcastle Sation direct by train for shopping, business or entertainment, the beaches, and the foreshore park.
Comment 9 2 Nov 2008, 9:17 PM
Im not going to type a long and wordy essay as to why we should cut the rail line as lets face it, the facts speak for themselves.
Blind freddy can see that Newcastle is dying and its being stifled by a vocal minority that want a bunch of steel tracks so that they can pat themselves on the back and valiantly cheer "Yay we Saved our Rail AGAIN!!!"
FGS Jodi do what you have been voted in to do. Revitalise our city. The people of Newcastle have spoken. Get rid of the rail and let Newcastle be alive again.
And if your in any doubt and want to maintain the status quo, I say bring on the next election. Newcastle is no longer that "safe" a seat you know.
Comment 9.1 3 Nov 2008, 3:18 PM
Well said Village. Hopefully Jodi will see that the majority of people who have made an effort to take advantage of this site are sick of sitting idle and unspoken unlike the loud minority of "Save the Rail at any cost". Jodi has the opportunity to make a name and take a stance for her home town to become a thriving CBD that us Novacastrians believe it can be. If this chance is lost who will be to blame?
Comment 9.2 6 Nov 2008, 3:51 PM
I totally agree with you Village! Jodi, if this development does not happen Newcastle will die, its dying already, a slow and painful death. Newcastle is not a safe seat for labour anymore!
Comment 9.2.1 7 Nov 2008, 7:35 PM
Newcastle is dying .... because you can't safely walk down the street at night... so who wants to be out late in the city. It's 3rd world with graffiti and drunken thugs accosting people leaving restaurants and the theaters at night.
Rail exists in most European and Australian cities near the rivers and harbours and is used successfully for transport and will be moving more in that direction in the future in the world. Newcastle needs to wake up ......
Comment 9.3 11 Nov 2008, 5:22 AM
Im not going to type a long and wordy essay as to why we should not cut the rail line as lets face it, the facts speak for themselves.
Blind freddy can see that Newcastle is dying and its being stifled by a vocal minority that want a bunch of concrete blocks so that they can pat themselves on the back and valiantly cheer "Yay we have PROGRESS!!!"
The people of Newcastle have spoken... quite a lot in an amazing diversity of opinions.
Get rid of the blind Freddies and let Newcastle people think beyond the 20 year old cliches. Read some of the thoughts on this webpage.
Comment 10 3 Nov 2008, 3:06 PM
Hello Fellow Novocastrians,
I feel that the best way to address the issues of transportation as well as access to the foreshore is to simply concrete over the rail line and send the buses that currently use Hunter street down from Wickham Station to the terminal at the current Newcastle Railaway Station (or Beyond to Parnell Place).
By doing this we acheive a cost effective solution using existing infrastructure. (NO Expensive White Elephants like Light Rail/Trams etc) At certain intervals along the Dedicated Bus Road we could have Pedestrian Crossings that coincide with the bus stops so as to maintain smooth bus more…
Comment 10.1 3 Nov 2008, 6:14 PM
Good comment, at least you are thinking of doing something. I took time to register on this site, hoping to find an 'organised' forum, but most of it seems to be people opposing each other, not coming up with solutions.
I see the problem with the rail line as an access issue. Why can't we just walk across the 'corridor' between the city and foreshore? Be it light rail, buses what ever. What ever is cost effective and works, but open up the access for people to walk across.
Comment 10.1.1 8 Nov 2008, 2:10 PM
Could you tell me why that level of easy access is so imperative. There are ample crossings already which cater for most people. The number of wheelcahir bound people and mothers with prams in the city are very few. Believe me.
I walking over a bridge every 200 metres so difficult??
Comment 10.2 7 Nov 2008, 7:40 PM
Short term thinking...... rail and tram will be much greener in the long run.... fuel is not going to get cheaper.
Extend the rail and plan for the future.
Newcastle record on buses is not good neither.
Comment 11 3 Nov 2008, 6:26 PM
I say rip up the rail line and welcome GPT with open arms, If GPT does pull out can the local government tell us what there grand plans for the rejuvenation of the CBD are.
After more than 20 years of talk it must be a real beauty.
Comment 12 4 Nov 2008, 8:37 AM
Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.
Comment 12.1 4 Nov 2008, 2:00 PM
Hunter St is Chalk and Cheese to Honeysuckle isnt it?
So why not get rid of the rail line so that the Beautiful development that has occurred in Honeysuckle spreads and infects the rest of the town.
The rail line is a barrier that separates the good from the Ugly , Remove the Rail line and let the rejuvination run its course!
The visitors (as you put it) will help fix Hunter St because of the investment that will come by first beautifying our city and that means taking away the divisive (in every way)Rail Line.
At least GPT have an idea - You Don't!
Comment 12.1.1 4 Nov 2008, 4:41 PM
Funny, I thought cleaning up the main street WAS an idea.
Comment 12.1.1.1 5 Nov 2008, 8:58 AM
One can "clean" garbage as much as they like....
Most of the old buildings on Hunter St should be levelled to make way for modern, beautiful, thoughtfully designed structures and until we open up a divided , tired ciy (south of the Line) which includes getting rid of the line all we will ave is more of the same and as you know no-one goes there any more. You can see evidence in the 2 major shopping centres in Newcastle - Business owners were on the news complaining that no-one goes to Charlestown square anymore and Westfield Kotara is booming because people and MONEY are drawn to newer flasher designs and i'm sure that Charlie square will be back when GPT finish that development.
I mean really, wouldn't you like to see a rejuvinated Newcastle, a place with a mix of modern and significant historical icons you could be proud of?
Comment 13 4 Nov 2008, 4:42 PM
Only if a developer has no alternative plan. I mean for pete's sake who owns this city, the people or the developers?
Everyone is so upset about what an eyesore the rail line is, well try walking the length of Hunter Street, it's FILTHY...
I did and was disgusted to be a Novocastrian, good impression for our visitors isn't it. Rather than complain about rail eyesores, citizens should be urging council to have a look at what can be done to beautify the main street, THAT'S what attracts visitors.
Comment 13.1 10 Nov 2008, 7:44 AM
That's the point!!!! As I have stated before, it is not the GTP proposal that is the crowing jewel it is that other developers will be able to piggyback off GPT and do up Newcastle West as a result. Let’s look beyond our nose please!!!! As for who owns the city, that’s just silly. Who ever holds the deeds own the city and any rubbish about the “people” is just that, rubbish. Government is there to oversee planning, development etc. Yes the government you elect!
Unless you are ready to put your money where you mouth is when it comes to actually doing something its time to get out of the way of those who can make a difference and let them get on with the job.
Comment 13.1.1 11 Nov 2008, 7:06 AM
If the people of this city are not ready to invest time and money into fixing up the ailing city, then how can we expect a company like GPT to do the same. We need to demonstrate that we are ready for progress and show that we are ready to make a commitment to remedy the problems currently facing the CBD. I think a shopping complex, like that proposed by CBD would be a lure for many people to return back to the CBD. Once more people return and there are things for younger people to do, I think we more…
Comment 14 5 Nov 2008, 5:42 PM
If America can see the light to elect the first Black President, then for peats sake can Newcastle finally see the light to connect our great city from harbour to (Redeveloped)CBD, with All the development we are undertaking around the western end of Honeysuckle, Wickham Station will be a station within the heart of the city, The green corridor & with the hope of one day a light rail system connecting the NEW transport interchange @ Wickham with Newcastle Beach, Merewether, The Junction, Adamstown, EAS & Hamilton is not something that we can afford pass up!!
Comment 14.1 7 Nov 2008, 7:48 PM
Maybe if Novocastrians got out on Friday and Saturday nights in Hunter Street to see what happens and how awful it is ... they would see that rather than the rail as a priority.
The train line is not the problem.... just bad planning by the developer/council who could have incorporated it better in their money making venture. Honeysuckle is not a wonderful example of planning ....Just a lot of tall buildings too close to the harbour....and quite depressing to walk through at night as well as being a windtunnel.
Comment 14.2 7 Nov 2008, 10:12 PM
What has the American elections got to do with our transport system???? Don't expect the State Govt to spend any money on putting in other transport options. Look at their record. Remove and there will be No Replacement.... for many years. They missed the boat in using the Coal contracts to put in 2 extra lanes and a parallel Toule St. Bridge ... and never considered an overpass for the Newcastle existing rail. They treat Newcastle badly because they can. Until it gets the guts to swing politically occasionally - that will continue.
Comment 15 6 Nov 2008, 3:24 PM
Does the Heavy Rail in the CBD serve the City, or conversely, does the City serve the Heavy Rail... To me its the latter.
Whats the point of maintaining a decreasingly used mode of transport to a destination that is suffering as a result of that particular mode and as time wears on the problem is exasperated.
Its about time leaders (local, state and federal) MANAGED the city and gave us the users a better transport system. Its taken developers to get to the heart of the issue of city growth problems in Newcastle. Politicians have to date not led the way to better solutions for people that use the city. Leaders need to pick up on the initiative of companies willing to "lay it on the line" (sorry couldn't help myself) and invest here.
Heavy Rail in the CBD isn't cutting it and is a decaying result of stayed and stagnant thinking.
Comment 16 6 Nov 2008, 7:00 PM
No-one has ever been told anything of what is happening. All these links are artist impressions, not actual plans.
So really people are showing you things that are not really there, which I will call "what if's", all plans would have to go onto public display for all to see, it's public land from taxpayers money.
This is what this forum is about, it is to find objective ideas & solutions to things that are happening to Newcastle. If you think that this forum is the answer to saving the railway, you would have to be very short sighted, every person more…
Comment 16.1 6 Nov 2008, 8:55 PM
Its more like lose the rail and then we can USE the city. A transfer to buses at the West End of town is a reasonable outcome in re-igniting the city to life.
By all means 'use it' to the city (ie Wickham) but i think its a case of cart before the horse if we burden under the rentention of the line to the east end.
The city's development as a well connected place is not able to fulfil its potential while it is divided, weighed down and locked in by the heavy rail into the city.
I think A more…
Comment 17 7 Nov 2008, 9:17 AM
The rail line does, and always will dislocate the city from our beautiful harbour. The Honeysuckle development has been largely successful (a large park wouldn't go astray), however it is like an island due to the rail line. Go down to Honeysuckle at lunch on a weekday, and it is deserted. I believe this is due to the barrier that is the train line. Restaurant are continually closing in Honeysuckle, as I believe often people do not want to make the effort to get there, however, if the rail line was gone, access would be plentiful.
And the rail line most more…
Comment 18 7 Nov 2008, 10:30 AM
No I don't - does the rail line inhibit the operaiton of the Queen Victoria Building in Sydney or Museum/Melbourne Central station in Melbourne? No they don't, they ensure that masses of people can efficiently access all areas!
The state of the public transport system as a whole is pretty run down - old rolling stock, average facilities at Newcastle Station and no integrated ticketing. If we put in a ticketing system like the Octopus card in Hong Kong the rail line could significantly enhance the development of the city
While you are at it, you could put a few more overpasses over the line, like the one that goes from the centre of the mall to Queens Wharf or underpasses at ground level
Comment 18.1 9 Nov 2008, 10:18 AM
Last time I looked the rail line was underground @ QVB!!!!
If the rail line was to go underground from Wickham than I am sure that every person in favour of cutting the line @ Wickham like myself on this forum would love to see the line continue into Newcastle Station, As for a integrated ticket system, I do not believe this would have a major effect on increasing the very poor number of commuters who use the current line.
Comment 18.2 11 Nov 2008, 9:22 PM
Lucky for Sydeny, someone had the insight and decisiveness to build the rail underground. The reality is not the same for us.
Comment 19 8 Nov 2008, 9:34 AM
if the railway was included in any development then it would not be an obstruction. for many people it is not feasible to get off a train and then get on as bus - it will put people off coming to the area. think of the great views if something was built over the railway line.
Comment 20 9 Nov 2008, 6:35 PM
I see the current position of a terminus for heavy rail at Newcastle as similar to haveing Central Station at Circular Quay for Sydney.
A lot of discussion here seems to jump to the conclusion that more cars will be the result of removing the heavy rail. With good planning and a commitment to alternative transport surely moving this major barrier is a good thing for Newcastle and its citizens, not just GPT.
Comment 21 11 Nov 2008, 5:34 AM
It's a tired cliche - the rail is a 'Berlin Wall', seen in the Herald editorial and other letters. Actually, the line of large buildings on Honeysuckle Drive is just as big a barrier as the rail but I doubt they will be removed in a hurry.
We have the technology to connect the main street to the waterfront - bridges, buildings, tunnels, even crossing gates. It's a lot more trouble to put the rail underground. We can have shorter trains if that suits the number of passengers. There are plenty of other potential connectivity improvements mentioned on this website. Improve, not destroy.
Comment 21.1 13 Nov 2008, 4:23 PM
As someone who's just moved to Newcastle, partly BECAUSE it has a railway line to the foreshore, I would be most disappointed if it was truncated at all.
Heavy rail is the most efficient form of transport available today for mass transit of people. It is not the fault of RailCorp the NSW CBD has died. It had nothing to offer that you can't get at Green Hills, or Kotara except the foreshore and Nobby's beach. Develop that, but remove public transport (I don't count busses as public transport as A) They are late more often than they are on time more…