Environmental management and education
by Samantha 1:36pm, 4 February 2008
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Community greening, environmental education, stormwater management, ClimateCam and more. Newcastle has a reputation for being at the forefront of environmental management and education. What would you like to see Council achieve in this area over the next 18 months?
This discussion topic is closed. You can still review the discussion but it will no longer accept comments or votes.
jube Comment 1
11:08am, 8 February 2008
9
2 
I think greater support of educational programs and facilities at Blackbutt with the support of the current Blackbutt Friends group which in the past have run some great Twilight and night walks. I feel they should be encouraged rather than stiffled
leta Comment 2
12:19pm, 11 February 2008
6
3
Council should support existing environmental management and education groups to continue to provide environmental education and management for the community across the LGA. The support should be equitable and transparent. The support should be prioritised for community groups first, and there should be a more stringent process for deciding where the funds are spent (ie why is Council funding government run organisations?)
Bigfeller Comment 2.1
3:59pm, 20 March 2008
2
0
"equitable" and "transparent" are the key words.
stringent selection is also a key.
The end result must be accountability and documentation demonstrating value for money.
alanm Comment 3
6:47pm, 15 February 2008
8
0
A priority should be placed on tidying up the city centre - it is not a good place to be most of the time esp at night
dipsy Comment 3.1
9:21am, 20 February 2008
6
0
Start with a midnight pub curfew.
JuliaB Comment 3.2
6:56am, 10 March 2008
6
1
The city on Friday and Saturday nights is a scary place - groups of drunk and drugged people, fights, and those looking for one. Walking up to a pub where we hoped to finish a pleasant night after eating at an OK restaurant and seeing a drunk leaving - horizontally with help from Security - was the final straw, we turned around and went straight home and don't go into the city anymore. Hotel curfews are a joke. Pubs keep serving drunks as they spend more and Security can chuck them out when they become a problem, but it doesn't stop the problem starting in the first place.
Bigfeller Comment 3.3
4:05pm, 20 March 2008
3
1
grog prices should double at midnight to fund the army of police, security and medicos necessary to support the "night life"
admin Comment 4
4:59pm, 21 February 2008
3
2
COMMENT BY kotaranana (Posted to wrong area)
Since the June storms and floods we have not been allowed to take our green waste to Blackbutt on Saturday mornings. Particularly in my suburb of Kotara most of us try to keep the area as green as possible to protect the environment and it was the norm to head up to Blackbutt first thing on Saturdays to drop off the cuttings. Is there any chance this service will be reopened.
Samantha Comment 4.1
Project Coordinator
11:10am, 22 February 2008
3
2
The greenwaste drop off spot relocated to Ford Oval, Womboin Rd, Lambton following the June storms. At this stage it will remain as the collection spot. I hope you are able to drop off your cuttings there.
Reformer Comment 4.1.1
5:55pm, 18 March 2008
3
1
HOW GREEN IS THE DROP-OFF, WHEN FUEL IS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION? ISN'T IT BETTER FOR HOUSEHOLDERS TO CUT UP WASTE AND STOCKPILE THEN RECYCLE IT AT HOME? HAS COUNCIL DONE A TRIPLE BOTTOM LINE ANALYSIS OF THE "NET GREEN" VALUE OF THIS? WHAT DID IT SHOW, ASSUMING YOU TESTED THIS BEFORE INSTITUTING THE SERVICE.
Reformer Comment 5
5:51pm, 18 March 2008
5
0
If NCC is fair dinkum about the environment they would not buy any gas guzzlers and change cars only after 10 years, including the Lord Mayor's car. Post-GST the economics changed . Check out the age and engine size of all the Councillors cars and use this as the benchmark.
The Mule Comment 5.1
9:35pm, 19 March 2008
2
2
Reformer I think you will find that replacing vehicles at NCC, and probably pretty much any other organisation that has a large fleet, is based on kms on the odometer and not the actual age, due to to the higher resale value of a low km vehicle. Most fleet vehicles are replaced well before they hit 10 years. Rightly or wrongly the decision is based on keeping within a budget and keeping costs down.
Philip Comment 5.1.1
3:00pm, 20 March 2008
4
1
I agree that age vs mileage is one consideration. But engine capacity/fuel economy is quite another. There are cheaper vehicels for local fleet use than Commodores. Is Council's vehicle choice compromised to satisfy the interests of officers who have private use or leaseback priveleges, which demand family sized vehicles? if so, the tail's wagging the dog!
Bigfeller Comment 5.1.2
4:13pm, 20 March 2008
3
1
Reformers main point was the gas guzzlers. All cars should be 4 cylinder or less. All should use E10 or diesal. How many cars have been replaced by electric push bikes?
Reformer Comment 5.1.3
12:54pm, 28 March 2008
2
1
Hi Mule,
This used to be the conventional wisdom at Councils in the pre-GST high inflation days (usually 40,000 KM or 2 Years, whichever comes first). They could at some times(late 80's / early 90's) make money on changeovers, even after a few months, by exploiting loopholes in legislation.
This is no longer the case.
That myth is now perpetuated by fleet managers and fleet leasing companies who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, for selfish reasons.
Councillors were provided a lightweight spreadsheet last year in support of a similar contention to yours. It was unsatisfactory and excluded detailed workings. Ask the Greens Councillors, who I understand were keen to pursue the initiative of longer changeovers and smaller engines. Perhaps the Council may respond by placing a detailed worksheet on the website, with a reference to Bang the Table.
Ask yourself 4 questions:
1. How many manhours are spent in trading in and changing existing vehicles more frequently than necessary,
2. How have the "KM readings at changeover" changed to reflect better quality vehicles or changes in the auction market,
3. Why have other Govt. organisations (eg Hunter Water) successfully extended their mileages at changeover, closed garages and saved manpower?
4. Who buys the 40K, 2 year vehicles? Answer, mostly private companies keen to get a good deal!
Samantha Comment 5.2
Project Coordinator
9:56am, 31 March 2008
4
2
It may be worth noting that Council won the 2007 Fleet Environmental Award from the Australasian Fleet Management Association. This award was sponsored by the Australian Greenhouse Office. It was awarded to Council for our use of bio-diesel fuel in our diesel vehicles and move to 4 cylinder passenger vehicles.
Reformer Comment 5.2.1
10:47am, 31 March 2008
2
4
Hi Samantha,
Will you please arrange to post a copy of NCC's submission on the Website? This is an important means of communicating to the ratepayers, NCC's initiatives in this area. Today would be helpful and there will be no time and effort roadblocks to doing so.
Reformer Comment 5.2.1.1
2:09pm, 31 March 2008
2
2
Hi Samantha,
Is this site designed to just let people blow off a little steam but be ignored by the NCC Administration, or is there a genuine desire to properly consult by providing the backup and evidence required to elevate the discussion to a useful level?
It seems that whenever we ask for more information from the NCC Administration we are stymied. I apologise if you have already posted the information under a "Bang the Table" section of the website.
I have asked one Councillor and there is no recollection of reading the NCC submission. Was it sent to Councillors?
Reformer Comment 5.2.1.2
7:02am, 7 April 2008
0
0
Reply please Samantha? At least say yes or no. If no We will ask the Councillors to ask for a copy. Or should the Herald look into the question of how many councils had the time to submit entries to the awards, or a news story headed "council hides controversial report"
Bigfeller Comment 5.2.2
10:55am, 31 March 2008
1
4
If the Council wanted to save some real money in the Man Plan and the environment it would have the total fleet using CNG
Bigfeller Comment 5.2.2.1
3:46pm, 31 March 2008
1
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Why was my comment at 10.55 31/3/08 removed
admin Comment 5.2.2.1.1
3:51pm, 31 March 2008
1
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Hi Bigfeller - it was a duplication of the previous comment.
Bigfeller Comment 5.2.3
10:55am, 31 March 2008
0
0
Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.
Reformer Comment 6
6:18am, 19 March 2008
4
3
Council spends too much time writing and talking about green issues and too little time doing things. Why? I it's easier to talk than act and there are too many clerks and administrators and not enough physical workers. Stop writing and reading manuals and start planting trees.
Philip Comment 7
3:10pm, 20 March 2008
4
3
What a pity that the Council, claiming to be at the forefront in environmental management, can't get the basics right. Have a look in any street on garbage collection day - bins on the road, on their side, lids open to fill with water on rainy days, spilt garbage not picked up etc. This is a poor and deteriorating service, which gives the appearance of nobody caring. All the self adulation in the world won't substitute for getting out and having a look at what really happens.
Bigfeller Comment 7.1
4:19pm, 20 March 2008
3
0
lets reduce the number of bins and make the total system environmentally friendly. Does anyone know how many bins are emptied into the truck before its full?
Samantha Comment 7.1.1
Project Coordinator
2:28pm, 25 March 2008
4
2
Apparently it usually takes about 1000 - 1100 bins to fill a garbage truck. This figure changes following public holidays (such as Christmas) when there is additional waste. It is also slightly seasonal as during summer there can be a lot more greenwaste deposited into bins.
Reformer Comment 7.1.1.1
2:18pm, 26 March 2008
1
4
SAMANTHA, CAN YOU PLEASE POST THE GARBAGE COLLECTION KPI'S? ALSO, DO YOU HAVE STATISTICS ON THE NET TONNAGE RECOVERED FROM THE RECYCLABLES COLLECTION? IE THE NET TONNAGE AND PERCENTAGE RETURNED TO LANDFILL.
I ASSUME THESE ARE CRITICAL MEASURES, SO SHOULD BE AVAILABLE INSTANTLY.
matt Comment 7.1.1.1.1
11:01am, 28 March 2008
0
1
Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.
Reformer Comment 7.1.1.1.1.1
1:05pm, 28 March 2008
0
0
matt, the reason fot the capitals is that i had to put the caps lock on to fill in your code, which is all capitals! so it was easer to stay in capitals all the time.
I was not aware that caps mean shouting.
Your admonition in the form of the phrase "We ask that you keep the tone of the conversation civil" assumes incorrectly that I was deliberately "shouting", which was not the case at all! Is this a demonstration of a personal attack?.
IMHO a more polite way of expressing the comment may have been "We ask that all respondents ensure that capitals are used sparingly in recognition of the convention on capitals".
admin Comment 7.1.1.1.1.1.1
1:19pm, 28 March 2008
3
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Hi Reformer - I apologise if I have offended you. Nothing intended.
For future reference the code is not case sensitive.
admin Comment 7.1.1.1.2
1:26pm, 28 March 2008
2
1
MESSAGE FROM ADMIN
We ask that all respondents ensure that capitals are used sparingly in recognition of the fact that many people interpret this as shouting.
Samantha Comment 7.1.1.1.3
Project Coordinator
2:57pm, 28 March 2008
4
2
Reformer, This site has been established to discuss the Management Plan. I suggest you contact Council's Waste Management Services to get the information you are after. They can be contacted on 4974 6000.
Bigfeller Comment 7.1.1.1.3.1
4:53pm, 28 March 2008
1
4
Samantha, I feel sorry for you. You have been placed in a role that you seem to have little knowledge about. This is very unfair of your senior officers.
Rates, Roads and Rubbish are the core Council activities. The Waste services (or rubbish) are one of the major expenditure areas of the Councils Management Plan and budget. If you examine a Management Plan you will also see that a special fee is set for the collection of waste bins.
If you do not feel confident to answer the questions then you should recruit the appropriate officer to prepare a statement for you to post or tell him (her) to log on and do it themselves.
Reformer and others should certainly be provided to the answers under this consultation media.
Reformer Comment 7.1.1.1.3.2
3:35pm, 31 March 2008
1
2
Hi Samantha,
Do you see any link between the question and the Management Plan? If not, I will explain it further on this site. Perhaps you could ring 0407 451 619 and ask for the KPI's used last year, whether they change this year, whether they are input or output focussed and whether they are measurable and show Top Value, best Practice Improvements.
Philip Comment 7.1.1.2
2:28pm, 26 March 2008
4
2
Yes, that's about the number. But you'll find it's set by the number a truck can pick up in an 8 hour shift when "working to rules" - nothing to do with the capacity of a truck. in fact they typically would do 2 loads each per shift. Because they're on "job-and-finish" the operators go as fast as possible (hence the poor standard of the service), so they can knock of as early as possible - often by 11am. This is the case with all Garbage collection operations. What makes the difference between a good service and a shoddy job is how much management cares about it and sets the standard. This is what's slipped in Newcastle in recent years.
Philip Comment 7.1.1.3
2:29pm, 26 March 2008
3
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Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.
Bigfeller Comment 7.1.1.4
4:49pm, 26 March 2008
1
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So how many litres or tonnes (of rubbish) is a garbage truck?
Also how much does it cost to operate a garbage truck per load?
Bigfeller Comment 7.1.1.4.1
9:41am, 1 April 2008
1
1
The people who gave me the thumbs down could not be serious about seeking savings in the Management Plan.
My question was a very serious question because I want to understand the costs of garbage collection in order to make a meaningful input into the Management Plan.
Is this site a serious attempt to involve the community in serious negotation about the Management Plan or simply a way of blowing $10,000 to $15,000 of ratepayers hard earned funds?
Samantha it time you and your Council started to answer the questions raised on this site and provide the information requested.
JSM Comment 7.2
9:21pm, 2 April 2008
2
1
People disagreeing with this must have either never experienced a good quality garbage service, or they've been lulled into accepting a lowest common denominator standard.
Bigfeller Comment 8
3:55pm, 20 March 2008
3
0
The real test of value is the "user pays test". The items listed above a a real mixture.
If Newcastle is the "expert" as claimed in the statement then in the next 18months I would like to see NCC make megga bucks out of their skills.
If it is the expert (drip under pressure) then I believe funding should be withdrawn and the money used to fund core business.
Reformer Comment 8.1
8:43pm, 26 March 2008
1
2
Better still bigfella, how about selling the brilliant Enviro Leadership service package for megabucks. Set a net budget revenue of $1 million, rather than a cost to ratepayers, with the net revenue excluding Government grants and handouts. Take away the biodieselmobile and let the crew sing for their supper.
Reformer Comment 8.2
8:44pm, 26 March 2008
0
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System Malfunction Matt!
Reformer Comment 9
9:06pm, 26 March 2008
2
1
Samantha, are you fair dinkum saying what you said above, or are you trying to stimulate debate and activate this site?
Let's analyse what you say above ...
Community greening ... What evidence to support the cointention that Newcastle is at the forefront of Environmental education ... Is this an input or an output indicator? Do you mean superior, World Class environmental awareness in Newcastle compared with other cities? How do we compare with, say, Hamburg or Auckland and who has measured this?
Stormwater management ... Are you serious?? Ask the poor Ratepayers what they think? Even the Gaudreys, with over 10 years as local members and Councillors are flooded out of their house at the moment! see proof at http://www.ncc.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/33413/NOM.pdf
ClimateCam ... This trinket is only useful if your team can encourage a gaggle of new disciples from other Councils to part with their readies to join the gang. I would auction it off to the highest bidder, to meet the $1 million per annum income target for that unit.
and more.
Newcastle has a reputation for being at the forefront of environmental management and education ... Samantha, where's the hard proof? Is this a result of media hype or delusion within NCC administration?
Relevance to the Budget?
Need to set a net Revenue Target of $1 million per annum for next 5 years, otherwise face the fact that this exercise is largely fantasy. I know these are harsh words, but someone has to bring it back to reality. I welcome a debate.
Reformer Comment 10
9:22pm, 26 March 2008
0
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Removed by moderator. Comment was deemed offensive, inappropriate or spam.
admin Comment 11
1:36pm, 28 March 2008
2
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Reformer has asked that I clarify the comment above was moderated out due to duplication and not for any other reason.