Sign In
or Create a new account
How can we make sure that everybody has a chance to be heard and their interests understood?
This online discussion forum has concluded. You can still browse the site but the discussion area will no longer accept new comments or votes.
Comment 1 29 May 2009, 11:06 PM
My background is a medic-legal but I have a disability hence do not have paid work.
From my observations, less respect is held for the views of people with disabilities without paid work. If these people are single mothers their worth seems further diminished. Their children also suffer from negative attitudes, especially in the education system.
*If these people are Aboriginal they are more devalued. Unfortunately too much emphasis is placed on the opinions of Winnungah Nimmitjah Health Service which is largely out of touch with the Aboriginal Community
First there needs to be a sense of community, which is not apparent in more…
Comment 1.1 2 Jun 2009, 9:55 AM
Policy making goes through several steps and the engagement with stakeholders needs to be matched to the stage that policy making is at.
Stages include:
• Getting the attention of decision-makers. Strategic issues do not always get the attention of decision-makers so the first step is to realise that some issues are important to people. For example use of genetic technologies really only came to public attention in New Zealand when the use of genetically modified products was being considered in relation to a new food standard and where the consultation phase coincided with a general election in New Zealand.
• Establishing which stakeholders have more…
Max Hardy Comment 1.1.1 Project Coordinator 2 Jun 2009, 12:16 PM
Murray, thanks for that. I'm interested in your comment about 'establishing which stakeholders have a legitimate interest in an issue'. How do you think this can best be determined and who would decide this? The term 'community of interest' is one that is gaining some traction. This could include those immediately affected, those who are interested in the issue - and would include internal stakeholders, experts and the decision-makers. What are your thoughts?
Comment 1.2 30 Jun 2009, 2:53 PM
Is this more an issue of ensuring that the right people are identified and consulted using the right channels with issues that are of relevance to them?
At least online engagement ensures the few loud, opiniated, wealthy, people don't take over a physical meeting. But that doesn't work for some groups as you've articulatd -- e.g. indigenous people, the poor and homeless.
Comment 1.2.1 6 Aug 2009, 10:52 AM
or those without internet access.
Citizens juries can be an alternative to get:
a) community views; and
b) access expert knowledge.
I would like to see the ACT Government trial these, with a jury's deliberations actually influencing the decision.
The ACT is such a small place, so this method can be quite representational of the population, yet consider local and business as well as expert/academic and other knowledges
Comment 2 30 May 2009, 2:10 PM
I dont think it is just about giving everyone a chance - it is also about making it convenient.
I find this sort of web stuff useful because it is convenient and quick but sometimes it is also good to attend briefings and meet other people who are interested in an issue. I prefer to drop in to a session and meet one on one with people (staff) than going to a mass meeting which is often just a rabble.
Please dont get survey people to ring me up - I hate that.
Comment 2.1 30 May 2009, 4:05 PM
I agree with both BlackAnnie and Reddo.
Convenience is a big issue - and access with timing. Nighttime meetings (especially in winter) are impractical and make it difficult for those with children to attend.
The internet is good for me, but I know several people who do not have access. Face-to-face meetings allow for the communication that is non-verbal, but Canberrans tendency to judge people by the clothes they wear can be an issue that excludes many.
Comment 2.1.1 12 Jun 2009, 11:28 AM
Well put Steffi
Comment 3 30 May 2009, 8:00 PM
- Try everything, often. What one person likes the next person will not only not like but won't use.
What I would like is getting an email after having registered to want to receive them would be good. Or full page adds asking for comment with a reply to email address or web addrress etc.
Then feedback an answer even when it is not what was wanted. The number of busineses that send feeback forms on their performance, get the suggestions and do nothing is astounding. This reinforces the view the the asker does not care but is only asking to make the person feel involved.
What frustrates? - asking for input when the decision has clearly already been made. (the public are not as silly as some in government think we are!)
Comment 3.1 31 May 2009, 9:38 AM
Totally agree with you dustmaker - it is bleedingly obvious that the ACT government has already made its decision when it calls for consultation and everyone is wasting their time becoming involved.
Until this is changed asking how/when/where to consult is irrelevant.
Comment 3.1.1 12 Jun 2009, 11:30 AM
Way too cynical BenD - what you are saying is there is no point in getting them to change. I agree they have been poor in the past, lets make it clear we want change.
Max Hardy Comment 4 Project Coordinator 31 May 2009, 12:40 PM
As the Project Co-ordinator I have really appreciated the thoughtful comments so far. Please keep them coming. I would also appreciate if those visiting this site could check out some of the documents in the library. The comments received so far would suggest firm support for the 'principles for community engagement'.
In my experience most agencies/govt departments do some things well and some things not so well. Examples where the ACT govt have done it well would also be useful. It is also worth noting that different groups in the community want different outcomes. In these situations it is not easy for governments to demonstrate that they have approached the matter with integrity, listened, and carefully considered the input. What suggestions would you make about how to proceed in such siutations?
Comment 4.1 31 May 2009, 5:21 PM
Wow - I have just had a look in the library. The document CE Principles: I'm wagering if the responses to the "Examples of Poor Practice" column were read to the average ACT punter in reflection to this (and previous) ACT Governments actions and principles there would be a lot of nodding heads. Not trying to be nasty here - just amazed at the written options.
So - in response to your response:
Don't then lie about being caught out.
Don't bluster and bully the community.
Don't tell us how we were wrong and the Decision makers were right all along.
I'd suggest humbly acknowledging the consultation process, explaining the decision making process and how and why the final decision was reached and showing leadership by moving forward.
I think the community expect leadership and mature people will accept that sometimes in a democracy their own personal opinion may not win out. Knowing that I have had my say and someone cared enough to listen and consider would make a huge difference.
Comment 4.2 4 Jun 2009, 5:38 PM
Thank you Max for stating clearly that it is important for depts to demonstrate their approach as to often we have seen that selective consultation is done via phone leading to a very selective narrow brief coming to the public for open consultation. This does not allow the public to really understand what is at stake in the consultation and the wider implications of the decisions that need to be made.
Rikki Kambah
Comment 4.3 24 Jun 2009, 8:49 PM
RE how the government should approach situations when there are differing opinions:
I think if people have the time and information and a deliberative process to examine and discuss an issue properly they are more likely to reach agreement or a compromise. So I'd urge the use of deliberative processes, particularly for contentious issues.
Comment 5 1 Jun 2009, 2:59 PM
As a single working parent I do not have the time to attend evening or weekend consultation groups and, frankly, having attended them in the past they seem more like propaganda sessions than genuine consultation.
I will not respond by phone to surveyors and do not write letters.
Also I do not read any of the local papers - I only read national papers (and do so online). I only listen to ABC radio (in the car) and do not watch television.
From speaking with many of my friends I am not unusual in any of the regards above.
However I am interested in more…
Max Hardy Comment 5.1 Project Coordinator 1 Jun 2009, 7:03 PM
Thanks Craig. You might be interested in having a look at the Citizen Centred Governance document in the library given your interest in local/national politics. I would certainly be interested in your thoughts feedback about it if you do check it out.
Comment 5.1.1 6 Aug 2009, 10:56 AM
Regarding access to documents Max. Access to documents is a barrier to public consultation! e.g. now. A weblink could help?
Comment 6 2 Jun 2009, 12:40 AM
I don't normally get involved because with 3 young kids I just can't get out to meetings without organising a sitter and that is expensive.
I like this but computers and broadbnd are expensive too. But all the school kids are getting free computers soon. Can't that help? Perhaps instead of paying those annoying people who phone up with surveys (always at bathtime!) the government should help pay for web access.
Comment 6.1 30 Jun 2009, 2:56 PM
Internet access is available from public libraries, but these places are usually incredibly underfunded.
Better internet access for all, equity of access to online information, should definitely be a government concern.
Comment 7 4 Jun 2009, 1:21 PM
The only way to generate worthwhile feedback from the public is to ensure that the public is well-informed about the proposal or issue that's on the table. If people don't know that an issue might affect them (positively or negatively), they're hardly likely to participate in consultation processes, whatever the consultative mechanisms are.
So, how about this: why not produce 'issues briefs',the kind that the Commonwealth Parliamentary Library does so well? These are well-researched, non-partisan and succinctly explain the pros and cons of the issue in question. That way, people will enter the consultation process informed and 'activated', and aware of what's at stake for them, their families and community.
Comment 7.1 4 Jun 2009, 5:55 PM
I would strongly encourage the government to try consulting on line, as in this case. Give all the relevant information and arguments for both sides, then encourage citizens to make comments in this type of forum, where arguements from both sides and various points of view can be expressed. Allow participants multiple says so that they can respond and refine their thoughts as the discussion continues.
Advise all registered members by email when a new consultation starts.
Max Hardy Comment 7.1.1 Project Coordinator 22 Jun 2009, 2:25 PM
Tower, I wonder what the best method is to invite people to register their interest. Some have indicated that they do not read local papers, or listen to local FM radio. People are unlikely to check the ACT Govt web site as a matter of course. I wonder how people found out about this Bang the Table site? It was advertised through usual channels but we dont really know which ones connected. Thoughts?
Comment 7.2 30 Jun 2009, 2:57 PM
This suggests that the government needs to be more open about what it is doing and how it is doing it in order to give the public a better understanding of the issues.
Using plain-English instead of public-servant-speak and hiding the truth behind what is politically correct would be a good start methinks.
Comment 8 4 Jun 2009, 10:38 PM
A good start would be government not making a thinly-veiled decision before they actually commence "consultation" with the community. This breeds cynicism in the eyes and hearts of the public and broadens the divide between the community and government. If only government could recognise this fact and actually determine to treat the rest of us lowly citizens with an ounce of respect, then things might start looking up.
It's easy for us to see when our government is trying to put one over us when:
- we attend a consultation where the questions are structured specifically to get the answers the more…
Comment 8.1 30 Jun 2009, 2:59 PM
Perhaps a way forward would be for government to have discussions and consultation throughout a process, blog about what it is up to, and engage community thought leaders in an open way.
It seems that all government ever does is involve more politicians and powerful people, produce a report, and then ask the public what they think in order to rubber stamp things.
Comment 9 7 Jun 2009, 1:38 PM
Exactly what is meant by that ?
A couple of years ago, the community was asked for submissions on proposed changes to dog exercise areas on the basis that many of the existing off leash areas were ajacent to major roads.
So I and a number of my dog owning buddies entered submissions. We were assured that we would get feedback.
- We did not get feedback
- Off leash areas away from major roads (eg: black mountain peninsular) was switched for those on major roads (eg: Commonwealth park changed to off leash between (busy)kings bridge and (busy) commonwealth bridges - alongside (even busier) Parkes Way.
This is one example. There are many more.
Have to wonder about our Democracy. Seems there are an increasing number of occasions where our democratically elected leaders, totally ignore (even) solicited community opinion and do exactly what they want.
Comment 9.1 12 Jun 2009, 11:31 AM
I agree, if you ask us to spend time then give no feedback that shows a complete lack of respect.
Max Hardy Comment 9.1.1 Project Coordinator 22 Jun 2009, 2:29 PM
Crossy, have you looked at the Principles document in the Library? Feedback certainly is very important. There have been projects I have known where consultation has influenced outcomes considerably, but the feedback was so poor that few people believed that the decision-makers took that input into account. I know sometimes I have failed to give sufficient feedback - the inclination we all have to move onto the next issue. You are right though - it is a matter of respect. It also builds confidence in the engagement process itself to know how decisions were made, what was taken into account, and what criteria is used. If you do look at that document please let us know what you think about it. Thanks
Comment 9.2 30 Jun 2009, 3:02 PM
There's a website called 'fix my street' (http://www.fixmystreet.com/) which is a great example of the public being intimately involved in what goes on in their community.
I would love the ACT Government to adopt this sort of strategy and be responsive in its communications with the public, rather than hide behind buracracy.
Comment 10 12 Jun 2009, 1:43 PM
By allowing enough time for real consultation to happen instead of starting the consultation either after discovering the community reacted negatively to an announcement, or with only days to spare before the decision has to be made.
Our schools, local shops and community organisations are good vehicles for communication between citzens. They don't reach everybody, but if a particular community believes that the Government will take its opinion seriously then the community members will make an effort to consult amongst all their residents.
The problem is that the Government has shown such blatent disregard for the ideas and opinions of its citizens, more…
Max Hardy Comment 10.1 Project Coordinator 22 Jun 2009, 2:33 PM
Peter, I'd be interested to know how you would ensure that a good mix of residents would be involved. Where some government departments or Councils have attempted this approach they have been criticised by some for allowing the dominant, and more vocal, members of the community too much power - at the expense of those who are less confident, and perhaps less able to participate. What do you believe would give the broader public confidence in the process?
Comment 11 24 Jun 2009, 8:18 PM
It is my experience that deliberative democratic processes are widely accepted to be the best way of engaging the community (see further information below) and those processes can be augmented by inviting submissions which could be included in the materials provided for deliberative processes. Such a combination of methods would be most likely to provide the opportunity for ACT citizens’ to have their views heard and, most importantly, also to have them thoroughly considered.
Deliberative Democratic Processes – further information
I would like to urge the ACT Government to adopt deliberative processes as a primary form of engaging the community in ACT more…
Comment 12 6 Aug 2009, 11:04 AM
By holding referendums. Thus, the decision is made by the citizens, not experts or interest groups or bureaucrats.
A say in the decision making is very different from a chance to be heard or having someone else understanding one's interests.
Comment 13 6 Aug 2009, 11:08 AM
So who speaks for the coming generations? Self-interest today should not be favoured over damage to coming generations.
Comment 14 7 Aug 2009, 9:33 AM
Identify the marginalised groups and provid resourcing/funding peak bodies that can gain their views and represent them.