Precincts in Hornsby

by Hornsby Council 2:57pm, 11 Mar 2009

Council is trying to encourage more housing close to shops and train stations in Hornsby. Do you support this approach? Do you have any comments? 

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Ic_relatesdoc Relates to document: Housing Strategy Vol2 Pt06 Hornsby Precincts (1.7 MB)

Is this issue important to you? Votes: 10
Comments (20) Expand All Replies

bellinid Comment 1 15 Mar 2009, 10:59 PM

Council has rushed this through in an underhanded manner without any proper community consultation, particularly from potentially affected stakeholders.

The urban design analysis was a farce, simply giving council the answers council wanted and its only purpose was to be seen to satisfy this criteria so that the whole process had a considered "designed" feel about it. For a $50,000 fee, the urban design consultants could only have raced through the precincts in a blur much like a "Europe - 10 countries in 10 days tour" would be like.

There were glaring mistakes made. For example, in Normanhurst, Denman Pde was listed as a collector road for the Buckingham Ave precinct when it is in actual fact a minor local road. Denman Pde is a collector road only for the section from the shops to Edwards Rd. The two Normanhurst precincts were listed as being housing estates of circa 1930-55. The subdivisions were actually created in 1914 and construction on houses such as my own commenced before the end of the First World War. Others were built a little later, in the 1920's and 30's, with the remaining blocks being filled after the war. Hence it is not actually a housing estate which is more correctly described as a residential area where the houses were all planned and built at the same time often in similar style. Perhaps it was deliberate to describe the precincts as such as the term often has negative connotations such as "public housing estate", thus making the areas seem less valuable and thus more expendable.

It is also both interesting and disturbing that under property capitalisation the houses were at best described as being in reasonable condition for the older brick ones in Normanhurst Rd precinct whilst absolutely no description of the condition of the homes in the Buckingham Ave precinct was made. Obviously as with almost anywhere, there is a range of conditions present but one thing that was not mentioned was the fact that most of the oldest brick character homes have been well restored and also extensively, and expensively sympathetically extended, in fact much more so than many of the older homes in Normanhurst's so called premier street Eaton Ave. Therefore the capitalization in these two areas is actually quite high, higher than the Normanhurst mean and making them two of the highest capitalized of the targetted precincts. By contrast much humbler areas such as the lone Hornsby one were at times described as having housing that was cared for and in good condition!

The urban design analysis also often failed to see which were old houses and which were newer ones. Anything rendered was described as a newer home when in fact there is actually only one new home that is rendered, with the remaining rendered dwellings ranging from pre 1920 to perhaps 1950's.

This may seem minor but what it reflects is a serious lack of genuine design observation on the part of the urban designers. There was no assessment of the particular nature and character of any place, no value put on the existing, just the same dry bland descriptions and strategies from one precinct to the next.

Inevitably what all this results in is the same bland predictable solutions in all areas. Solutions that unfortunately often fail to be sympathetic to the neighbourhoods into which they have been dropped.

And so we all lose out in the end

I support more housing near amenities and transport links but not when it destroys precious urban fabric that can never be replaced and definitely not when it is the NSW state government's solution to avoiding proper transport infrastructure planning and implementation.

Even so, there are still questions to be asked about why Hornsby council has not used this as an opportunity to:

1. Revitalise Pennant Hills CBD (sorry your "too complex at this point in time" excuse just does not wash!)

2.Ditto Thornleigh

3. Take advantage of the fact that the area between Thornleigh and Pennant Hills Stations is accessible by foot to both

4. And finally turn the so-called "jewel in the crown" - Hornsby into a proper vibrant urban place.

Oh but there is so much much more...

Very disappointing Hornsby!

Council has rushed this through in an underhanded manner without any proper community consultation, particularly from potentially affected stakeholders.The urban design analysis was a farce, simply giving council the answers council wanted and its only purpose was to be seen to satisfy this criteria

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growlcat Comment 1.1 16 Mar 2009, 1:30 PM

Does the council not realise that there are no public High Schools easily accesible from Normanhurst? Local Normanhurst teenagers have to bus and train it to either Turramurra or Pennant Hills High Schools. Residents in the proposed units will discover that it is not as convenient as they had thought (unless all the residents are the proud parents of kids that have made it into the two local selective high schools!).

I agree that Pennant Hills has been ignored in this strategy. This is a great opportunity to revitalize a long-neglected area of the Shire, and to improve facilities (such as the woeful and derelict Pennant Hills shopping centre). In addition, there is easy access to both Primary and High Schools from this area.

Does the council not realise that there are no public High Schools easily accesible from Normanhurst? Local Normanhurst teenagers have to bus and train it to either Turramurra or Pennant Hills High Schools. Residents in the proposed units will discover that it is not as convenient as they had thought

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Cat Comment 1.1.1 15 May 2009, 1:41 PM

I agree with the lack of public schools (non selective) options in the Hornsby Shire! this is however another debate in its own right.

bellinid Comment 2 15 Mar 2009, 11:10 PM

You have hardly allocated any extra housing in Hornsby in the strategy!

Cat Comment 2.1 15 May 2009, 1:46 PM

Because they would rather see Waitara & Normanhurst be the scapegoat, especially Waitara

RichardB43 Comment 3 28 Mar 2009, 7:01 PM

THe properties along the north side of Bridge Rd are crying out for redevelopment. They are within easy walking distance of Hornsby station, the main commercial centre, even Asquith industrial area for work. They should be included.

Then why not zone the whole area between Sherbrook Rd and The Pacific highway (across the railway), south of Asquith St down to Bridge St, as Townhouses. All within walking distance of Asquith or Hornsby station.

RichardB43 Comment 3.1 28 Mar 2009, 7:02 PM

That should read "South of Asquith station" down to Bridge St.

Nina Comment 3.2 14 May 2009, 4:16 PM

Totally Agree. Houses in Sherbrook Rd are practically falling down between Burdett and Edgeworth David and yet the Council is rezoning areas where nobody wants it, including my area!

Seamus Comment 3.3 14 May 2009, 4:25 PM

I agree with you. I drive past that area of Sherbrook rd every morning and it is an eye sore. I would have started the rezoning there. It's right next to everything. I don't understand the town planning logic. I thought the idea was to target places near the shops and trains.

emzetic Comment 3.3.1 16 May 2009, 11:52 PM

I went to a council drop in meeting. There is a circle drawn around the station as possible rezoning area. Only a small part of Sherbrook rd is within the circle and most of that are already townhouses. There is no consideration given to condition of houses. What a shame!

Cat Comment 3.4 15 May 2009, 3:24 PM

Sherbrook Rd between Burdett and Edgeworth David st has an underground pipe running from Waitara Oval to direct storm water. It was Hornsby original water catchment. This may have something to do with it.

bellinid Comment 3.4.1 17 May 2009, 4:01 PM

Seeiing as how we having beingshooting off into space, desalinating water, giving people face transplants, I don't think this would be an unsurmountable problem. Hardly something that would ever get ranked as an engineering marvel of the modern world if it was ever dealt with.

MD21 Comment 4 16 May 2009, 9:01 PM

Id like to emphasise the unsightliness of the Hornsby overpass, from Florence St to the station. If we would like our suburb to have these shiny new blocks of units, it might as well not have a dated dirty and damaged bridge running right through it.

I agree about the idea of doing something with the quarry and the Bridge road area, and the old petrol station land opposite Barker College, could be transformed to a public garden or shops/cafes perhaps, if dwellings are not possible.

bellinid Comment 4.1 17 May 2009, 4:12 PM

I am pretty sure that the old service station site can support high rise particularly if it were amalgamated with the storage facility next door, which does not require a central location.

As for the pedestrian bridge from the station into Florence St, I affectionately named this the "overhead open drain" many years ago! An appalling and embarrassing structure right from the beginning that is in dire need of detonation!. Perhaps it could be replaced with something more poetic and also practical like the Ponte Vecchio in Florence, Italy? This particular bridge has multiple functions - a pedestrian link over the river, a shopping street with shops and higher levels with other useable spaces(offices, apartments?) and a once secret, covered passage linking the Uffizi Gallery with the Pitti Palace on the other side of the river. Truly multi-purpose and also aesthetically pleasing.

I am pretty sure that the old service station site can support high rise particularly if it were amalgamated with the storage facility next door, which does not require a central location.As for the pedestrian bridge from the station into Florence St, I affectionately named this the "overhead open drain"

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Cat Comment 4.2 18 May 2009, 8:52 AM

Hehe, the overpass isn't very old, it was simply built ugly!

I have fond memories as a kid riding my skateboard over that ugly overpass.

lozza Comment 4.2.1 10 Jun 2009, 5:51 PM

UM isn't it prohabition to ride a bike,roller skates or skateboard on many public areas in the Hornsby Shire??? YOU NAUGHTY PERSON YOU!!!!

emzetic Comment 5 16 May 2009, 11:55 PM

Hi everyone,

Making a comment here is not enough. Please make your view known to the Council by sending a written submission by 1 June 2009.

E-mail: housing@hornsby.nsw.gov.au

Post: The General Manager, Hornsby Shire Council, PO Box37 Hornsby NSW 1630

RichardB43 Comment 6 28 May 2009, 1:56 AM

I have put a number of submissions to the council.

I share these with people for discussion, on a Wiki website www.hornsby.wetpaint.com. On this wiki website, if you join up, you can add your own pages and discussion too.

You don’t need to join up to view.

Look forward to your comments and contributions.

Richard Boult

RB1 - Asquith Shopping Centre – Council can and must be Pro-Active

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB1+-+Asquith+Shopping+Centre+%E2%80%93+Council+can+and+must+be+Pro-Active

RB2 - Suggested traffic control for junction of Amor St, Pacific Hwy, bridge ramp north

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB2+-+Suggested+traffic+control+for+junction+of+Amor+St%2C+Pacific+Hwy%2C+bridge+ramp+north

RB3 - Amelioration of increased Valuation and Rates problem.

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB3+-+Amelioration+of+increased+Valuation+and+Rates+problem.

RB4 - Draft 5 Storey Guidelines - Comments & Suggestions

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB4+-+Draft+5+Storey+Guidelines+-+Comments+%26+Suggestions

RB5 - Amelioration of Impact for some Asquith precincts

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB5+-+Amelioration+of+Impact+for+some+Asquith+precincts

RB6 - Additional Areas for Development, and some removals

http://hornsby.wetpaint.com/page/RB6+-+Additional+Areas+for+Development%2C+and+some+removals

I have put a number of submissions to the council. I share these with people for discussion, on a Wiki website www.hornsby.wetpaint.com. On this wiki website, if you join up, you can add your own pages and discussion too. You don’t need to join up to view.Look forward to your comments and contributions.Richard

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Nina Comment 7 5 Jun 2009, 12:31 PM

Why is Sherbrook rd not earmarked for Rezoning? I drive past it every day and it looks perfect for it, close to shops, trains etc and very run down, unlike where I live which has been rezoned and very unpopular with the locals?

Seamus Comment 7.1 5 Jun 2009, 12:34 PM

I totally agree. Sherbrook rd looks like a no brainer for rezoning.