Save Our Rail Line

Nobody wants to save the rail if its a dead duck The truth is that it is a very important part of the city infrastructure just like the roads and harbour.

Our harbour is the worlds largest coal export port because we have marketed our coal.

Our city currently offers for sale a huge range of products and services. The GTP proposal offers nothing new. The problem is we have not positively marketed our city.

Lets market the city, make it very car friendly and pack the trains with tourists, shoppers revellers and staff.

$650m on tourism and marketing will do far more for Newcastle than GTP will do for one block about the size of Horseshoe beach.

By the way Bigfeller, it's GPT. I wonder what the G "really" stands for?

We should be marketing the rail line as part of the CBD.

One thing that needs to be done, is to extend State Transit's Fare Free Zone to include the trains from Hamilton <-> Newcastle. A train is timed for 5 - 6 minutes. A route 100 series bus takes about 16 mins. The only other STA bus that goes from Hamilton Station to Newcastle is a round about route that takes 35 - 38 mins.

I know people won't like this, but we should be making cities less car friendly.

If the railway line didn't exist but instead, a corridor including greenways such as GPT is proposing were in its place, and a proposal was raised to build a line occupying the corridor and dividing the city, it would not even be considered. Neither should retaining the existing line.

What experts have said it should say? I have heard the professor of urban design at the University advocating termination at wickam and Engineers Australia suggest wickham is the best spot.

Proof it will be positive is there for everyone to see some $700 Million of private money being invested into the city is proof alone the government never going to spend that kind of money on Newcastle.

Looking towards the future what are our transport needs going forward? lighter, more energy efficient and more convienient than what currently available.

We should use this opportunity to advocate modern solutions to this not retaining failed 20th century transportation models.

Newcastle has put up with 2nd best for long enough.

Big feller...We don't need heavy rail in the Middle of Newcastle CBD at all. That Railway was part of a much large picture of what was in Newacstle 30 years ago, both The Honeysuckle & The Foreshore are both former train yards from when Newcastle was Industry ran, those days are long gone. A "Tram System" is more feasable & would open up the City as a whole, make 3 Visions into 1 reality. No train station would have to be demolished, but utilised within the tram system, current train ticket holders could be inter linked with the tram system more…

The rail line is a dead duck, except for a few pampered passengers, and hinder anyone trying to drive in the city.

terminate all transport, including busses at a Broadmeadow transport hub, and set up electric busses through CBD, merewether, and mayfield.

Paris can do it.

Why are the Devlopers not including the Railway Line in their development?

It is very easy to build over the Railway line, so therefore there is no reason why the Foreshore, the Railway Line and the Main shopping Mall can not be joined together.

For the Railway line Corridor to be used for anything else it would have to have Millions of Dollars spent on it for Remedial work as that land would be toxic.

Get the Developers to do Soil reports on the soil before you agree to any development on the Railway Corridor.

If this is not done before development starts then there will be problems at a later stage,that include health problems.

Regards,

Wilfy 2008.

Rail Corridor will have TOXIC SOIL.

Before any development is done a Toxic test and report needs to be carried out on the soil which is currently in the Rail Corridor.

Also a decision needs to be made as to who is going to pay for the Remedial work that will need to be done to the Rail Corridor to make it safe for Development to go ahead.

The Toxic Test and Report will need to be made public so that the population of Newcastle is aware of what is going on.

If the Railway Line is removed the CBD will definately die.

If you are in favour of the Railway line being removed, make sure that all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed , because once the line is ripped up there will be no turning back.

Just thinking outside the square (mentioned this on another thread)....

All this talk about trams. We already have buses on Hunter street. Why not remove the rail at Wickham as proposed, and turn the rail corridor into a green corridor BUT put a two lane concrete or paved road from Wickham to Newcastle, and move most buses off Hunter steet and onto the corridor. Terminate all other buses at Wickham as well as the trains, and put these "shuttle" buses onto the corridor, running them every 15 minutes or so, lining them up with train and bus service arrivals. Then it's just a few metres walk from train to shuttle bus. If shuttle buses stopped at Civic and near Queen's wharf that would probably be enough, with the other Hunter Street stops taken care of by a few remaining normal buses on Hunter Street. Pedestrian and shuttle bus interaction could be just like the area adjacent to the Sydney Entertainment Centre, or in any part of Melbourne where people and trams and cars mix everday.

if the railway line is removed, there will be other things built there. we have seen how the "wall" is moving across to the harbour. given enough time and the city will be completly cut-off from the water by development anyway.

why does no-one ask why the trains arent comming from toronto, cessnock, kurri, redhead, charlestown or newcastle airport, raymond terrace and nelson bay?

i doubt an expansion of rail services will be able to happen up here though, it would benefit too many ordinary people.

Mathamatics need to check out traffic flow in the CBD district, my claculations say that only 1700 vehicles can travel into Newcastle between 7.00am to 9.00am and that is using King Street and Hunter street. My calcuations say that only about 2,400 people can get into Newcastle using buses and cars. The Herald dated Saturday 18/10/08 quoted there would be possible 16,914 direct jobs and 47,923 jobs created. From this cars and buses are not sufficent to take workers into the CBD. The rail is need to carry these people into Newcastle

I feel that if traffic flow is studied with the rail gone and a few more roads go to Wharf Road from Hunter Street, I feel that there would be no significate advantage found, from what is in place now. I feel that if people need an easy walk from Hunter Street to Wharf Road an escalator should be built and leave the rail in place. The Escalator could go from Hunter street to Wharf Road there by not needing traffic lights for pedestrians to cross Wharf Raod or Scott Street.

A number of people who have written into Letters at The Herald express that the rail should go under ground, but that is a bit expensive, why not build over the rail way line, and while they are at it build over Scott Steet and Wharf Road as well.

The biggest draw back Newcastle has is lack of parking. It was not long ago the Markets that were tried failed because of parking. Centres like Charlestown Square, Westfield Kotora, have free parking, and easy shopping. Newcastle can not compete with that so Shop keepers left Newcastle, leaving a disused city, but the train can still get to Newcastle to bring shoppers in from out of town.

Once Newcastle is busy again, traffic in King Street Hunter street and Wharf Road will come down to a crawl, so buses from Wickham will be a similar bus ride you can expect in Sydney at Peak hour, and that is to travel one kilometer in an hour making cordinating buses with trains at Wickham impossible. Sydney travellers use the trains because there are fewer hold ups than the roads in peak hour. Another reason why the rail should be left.

The traffic in Newcastle with developments will ressemble when The Pasha Bulka ran aground. No one could move.But the train could take people in and out of town, the same way when big things are on at the Foreshore.

We should be building new lines and reopening old ones in this age of $1.50/L fuel prices, not ripping out more lines.

If the developer is serious about future planning and population growth, removing any infrastructure is a mistake. Let them have the corridor but make them bury it or build over from Civic back towards Mayfield. Lets also consider the 100,000 people up the valley that need this service. We should also not be influenced by the minority that are very vocal as their property values will increase. They knew the rail line was there when they purchased! An independant survey of rail patronage is urgently required as official stats would not include the 50 to 60% of non fare paying passengers since they stopped checking tickets.

Save the rail line - kill the city. Take your pick.

After living in many cities in the world, I find Newcastle to be one of the best. I also use the train all the time. I have seen various 'solutions' to transport in those cities.

1) Failure one: remove rail and public transport and encourage cars. Newcastle would look like Los Angeles.

2) Failure two: move the rail head to a suburb. They've tried this in Toronto (Canada) and it's a sure way to kill rail use.

3) Failure three: trust developers. They are out to make a profit, not benefit all who live in a city.

4) Success one: keep the rail one. more…

What does it take to make some people realise that one of the major reaons the CBD is dead is BECAUSE of the rail line! Instead of fighting to save the rail in its current state surely the objective of all thinking Novocastrians must be to secure the best possible transport system for the Hunter and one that best suits the needs of the specific problems raised by the geographics and layout of the city. If one were to start with no preconceptions or bias and a blank sheet and consider all possible options for the best possible transport system for newcastle & the Hunter I can assure you that a heavy rail link to Watt St would hit the discard bin the first round.

Look here - some real numbers.

Average number of passengers per train past Hamilton - Cityrail figues

1997 - 33

2003 - 29

2008 - 27

How can you justify splitting a city in two by running a heavy rail line for 1/2 a bus load of people who could change to a bus for nothing?

Where is this growth in patronage caused by high fuel prices and congestion?

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The only impact the railway line is having for developers is that they cannot make any money for themselves if the rail line stays. Time and time again, the view of the harbour and water has been spoilt in coastal areas due to the high rise buildings that are created much too tall. Newcastle will be one bit lot of tall brick and concrete walls and turn into another Sydney. We do not need any more developing near the harbour. Maybe just a conversion to a light rail service to terminate at Newcastle Station instead of the train service that is in existence. A nice tram with a colourful exterior to suit the surrounding environment for Newcastle.

Nobody is considering the rights of existing users of the rail line. I use this service often and my trip’s length time is important (health reason’s) but State Government and Hunter residents should realize that the success of public commuting will fall away directly relative to travel delay’s and frustration (bus services are inferior).

Why can’t we – the citizen’s - be considered as equals, when services are proposed instead of government dictates and outspoken commercial interests.

I accept that rail lines divide city function but wiping out this infrastructure at the behest of commercial interest is insane, undemocratic and unfair more…

Vince is spot on above with the comment regarding what the traffic jam was like when loads of people came into the CBD to take a look at the Pasha Bulker. Only greedy stupid fools could advocate cutting the rail link: we will need the rail system in the future and this is why we have already decided that it will be staying.

The great thing about rail is that you can walk up to any station and easily find out where the train takes you and what time it will take you there. Try doing that at a bus stop!

Having grown up near a station I made many trips in to Newcastle on the train because it was easy. If it was painful then Maitland would be much more attractive. Now that I live closer to town I still use it to get to the city and also to get to Sydney for work.

Unfortunately, most of the people in my area who have an opinion on the railway want it removed, but only because they insist on waiting at level crossings and haven't worked out that it's quicker to avoid them!

I wouldn't argue against making the right changes to the line, but let's not just grass it over and pretend that everything will be alright.

I would like you to know how disgusted we felt when we heard that a developer was trying to hold Newcastle to ransom by demanding that the rail line into Newcastle be cut at Wickham. This is outrageous to hold Newcastle to ransom like this.

We don’t want to be told what to do by developers, we went down this road before and the Labor Party promised to listen to the peoples wishes and the peoples wishes were to keep the railway line as is. It would be a bad day for democracy when developers can dictate to the community and more…

Hve you seen the GTP share price plummet, their share are under a dollar now which is down from 4 dollars, they wont be able to afford to spend any money, so is this a smoke screen by the silver tails to remove the rail line. If the rail line is cut and less people visit the CBD what will you blame then?

I did suggest an Escaltor across the rail, Hunter Street, Scott street, Wharf road. I did suggest build across the rail, Scott street and Wharf Road. Now I suggest that a walk way built one story up linking all of Newcastle, that pedestrians do not have to be worried about vehicle traffic, the rail, traffic lights. This creates connectivity of Newcastle to the fore shore and other places. A walk way can be built from light weight material available, and is not that hard to Engineer. This makes Newcastle one big mall

Save the rail, how many times have we seen cities dig up tram/ rail lines only to complain latter about poor transport to the city center. Sydneys a classic for now noises are being made to refit tram lines back for its ease of use and low operating cost like Melbourne. At a huge price, the line at Newcastle was paid by our forefathers Use the assets we have and don't bend to the whim of developers out to make a quick buck then disapear.

If the line is cut at Civic or Wickham, it's patronage will largely delend upon promises of a transit centre and a reliable connecting transport system from there. Both depend upon a commitment of the state government to public transport.

When will they get round to buses connecting with Broadmeadow Station?

How committed have they been to developing Sydney's public transport commensurate with it's growth?

What commitment have they shown to providing proper public transport infrastructure for new residential subdivisions?

What commitment?

The truth is out, forget replacing the rail corridor with any parks, cycleways and any green areas, GPT wants the Railway corridor land for buildings. They want to replace the rail corridor with ugly buildings. We are replacing one barrier with another barrier. Under the GPT proposal you still wont be able to walk from the foreshore to the CBD. Dont be held to ransom by developers who have their own agenda.

The rail line is an eyesore and that was the intention to let it get to this stage so that they can get support to get rid of it. It is a catch 22 situation because the council has made judgments for Newcastle in the past no one goes there now but if the right judgments are made in the future then people will start coming back and the rail service would be a vital part of the transport needs. In the past when the Stewart Street crossing was put in blind freddy could see that an overpass was the correct answer and the reason a level crossing was put there was to frustrate car drivers so that they could get rid of the rail line.

Save our rail is so blind that they can't see the big picture Newcastle Station is outdated too small and really who'd be proud of it. why don't we let whoever build a world class station that would cater for Newcastle's future population growth.And as for it taking longer to get to the east end of Newcastle it would be pretty much the same?how lazy have people become if the can't get off a train and walk no more than 20 metres to a bus which comes about every five minutes.?EVENTUALLY WITH A LARGER POPULATION AND INCREASED TOURIST NUMBERS HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET THEM OUT OF THE CITY.WHY NOT FIX IT NOW AND NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS DOWN THE TRACK???

If GPT can not include the Rail Line in their plans, it may be worth talking to Frank Lowy and the Westfield boys to see if they could develop the area with the rail line included.

If so, they could then buy out GPT's Newcastle investment at a time when GPT share price is at an all time low (and when they GPT, may need to raise some fast cash) and GPT can take their bat and ball and go back home to Sydney.

I'm sure we can find a developer somewhere that will include the rail line in their plans.